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Thread: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

  1. #91
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    Dear Open-Minded Thread Readers:

    I'd like to share an observation with this forum:

    From what I've seen of 'CT Me', 'lawguy' and Unregistered, they only seem to have 4 tricks with which to sway people:

    1 - Unsubstantiated claims.
    2 - Misrepresented facts.
    3 - False accusations.
    4 - Changing the subject.

    Why won't they try a 5th option: relevant references to reputable sources?

    Maybe because there aren't any?

    (OK, there was that one thing about Home Hardware. Score 1 point ... out of 12. And even 'lawguy' wrote, "research must be in depth, not shallow assuming first link has all details").

    If one simply ignores those 4 little tricks, I believe all the noise fades away, and it's clear that it's all just a lot of hot air. Nothing of any substance is being presented.

    Tactic #4 (Changing The Subject) seems to be especially popular, lately. Just tonight I saw this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    here's a hint....if you're not quite sure you want it....don't buy it)
    The focus of the entire debate (indeed the thread itself) has been on defective items, so why even bring up 'change-of-mind' returns? Is this just to create yet another diversion? Or maybe it's just to offend customers?

    In any case, it diverts attention away from the fact that Unregistered utterly failed to prove in post #50 that "every single return policy of major retailers ... [has] some variation of the same return policy".

    This diversion came on the heels of multiple posts on manufacturers' warranties, and extended warranties. This also has nothing to do with the topic at hand: store policies on defective items.

    There are many other examples, such as asking me about lawsuits, when I've never even entered the discussion (expect to point to the successful resolution reported by the original creator of this thread).

    Keep in mind, the entire 'what are the store policies?' debate is, itself, a tangent from the 'what are the consumer protection laws?' discussion. And the vast majority of the credible evidence supports this statement: if an item is defective, according to the Sale of Goods Act and the Consumer Protection Act, a retailer in Ontario must provide a refund.

    Unsubstantiated claims. Misrepresented facts. False accusations. Changing the subject.

    You be the judge of these anti-customer posters' credibility.

    -----

    In other news, I actually set foot in a Crappy Tire store, today! Don't worry; I didn't buy anything! I was only there to gather information .... in aisle 11 - Pressure Washers!

    My report is in the works ...

  2. #92
    Posted by an unregistered user Angry CT Guy's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    Just answer the question....name one law suit against a major realtor.....any single one....including Canadian Tire where their return policy is deemed "illegal". There is no change of topic...I've asked you repeatedly the same question. You've been repeatedly given FACTS that refute your claim....you can save a little face with anyone that reads this forum with just ONE example from ANY lawyer that can show the return policies of ANY retailer is "illegal".
    Truth is...you can't do it.....all this bullshit you've been spouting is YOUR opinion!......period.
    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are at least half educated....there is an old line that you can't teach brains.......start using yours....the dots will eventually connect.

  3. #93
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Just answer the question.
    Wow! Where did THAT come from??

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    ....name one law suit against a major realtor.....any single one....including Canadian Tire where their return policy is deemed "illegal".
    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I've asked you repeatedly the same question.
    I'm sorry, were you asking me, before? It sounded like you had a discussion going with someone else on this side-topic. I wasn't really following.

    I could see you getting all upset if I'd claimed there were such a case, and was now refusing to back that up. I know how annoying it is when people do that ("zing!"). But, that's not the case here at all.

    Besides, what makes you think it’s up to me to answer your question? Why should I do more of your research for you?

    Here’s an idea: why don’t YOU name a lawsuit where the policy was deemed “LEGAL”?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    There is no change of topic...
    Actually, it is a change of topic.

    You have been attempting to change it from, "What do the laws in Ontario say about retailers being required to provide a refund for a defective item?", and make it into, "Are there any lawsuits ..." (etc.)

    So, "Trick #4 - Changing the subject".

    But, hey, I'll play along.

    What is your purpose in trying to pull off this topic change? Do you think if I’m unable to answer your question, then nobody has to pay attention to Ellen Roseman, the other consumer’s rights activists, the lawyers whose sites I’ve quoted, and the wording of the laws themselves? That would be so nice for you and the stores.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    You've been repeatedly given FACTS that refute your claim....
    Am I missing something, here?

    I’ve scanned through your writings. The only verifiable “fact” I could find from you on this subject is your link to the London BBB’s site.

    I'm going to have to call this one "Trick #2 - Misrepresented facts", based on the term "repeatedly".

    Anyway, I’m not going to discard the avalanche of evidence I’ve already found, just because of an ambiguous interpretation at one site. That’s just not reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    you can save a little face with anyone that reads this forum with just ONE example from ANY lawyer that can show the return policies of ANY retailer is "illegal".
    Based on the general feedback I’ve seen, I don’t need to ‘save face’ on this forum.

    Could this be an example of "Trick #1 - Unsubstantiated claims"? I'll let it slide.


    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Truth is...you can't do it.....
    I really haven't looked into it. For all I know, I can, but just haven't, yet.

    Now, then. How would you ever substantiate the above claim? I guess you'd have to do an exhaustive search of all the cases, to show that there are no examples. And you obviously have not done so.

    No escaping this one. A clear "Trick #1 - Unsubstantiated claims".

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    all this bullshit you've been spouting is YOUR opinion!......period.
    No, I've made it clear that these are the opinions of the reputable sources I’ve been quoting.

    Another example of "Trick #2 - Misrepresented facts."

    Are you hoping to trick people into thinking these are only one anonymous person’s opinion, and so they can be safely disregarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are at least half educated....there is an old line that you can't teach brains.......
    Are you suddenly deciding to ‘play nice’?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    start using yours....the dots will eventually connect.
    Oops. I guess not.

    ----

    Final score:

    Trick #1 - Unsubstantiated claims: 1 instance.
    Trick #2 - Misrepresented facts: 2 instances.
    Trick #4 - Changing the subject: 1 instance

    Actual content:

    - An appeal for me to do more of your research for you.
    - A random insult. Maybe that should be Trick #5?

  4. #94
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    Allow me to post a retraction:

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    DavidLer, ....still waiting for that 1 example of a successful lawsuit against a retailer for their "illegal" return policy
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidLeR View Post
    There are many other examples, such as asking me about lawsuits, when I've never even entered the discussion
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidLeR View Post
    I'm sorry, were you asking me, before?
    It looks like I lost track, there, of who was falsely accusing me of what.

    To be fair, I should ding myself with, "Misrepresented facts: 1 instances." Maybe just a half of one?

    In my defence, I still don't know why Unregistered is directing so much hostility at me on this side-topic.

    Perhaps I just represent all those 'consumers' they seem to dislike so much?

  5. #95
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    DavidLer
    you have cleverly accused others of changing the subject, posting irrelevant information etc.... that's fine. i will gladly connect my posting of yesterday to today for you.
    let's first examine you post #46 of this thread. One of several in which you claimed canadiantire invented repair only for items. in several other posts you used the term "illegal" to describe the repair option at store discretion.

    is it true david you made those claims?

    DavidLer
    "This will especially hit them on their precious “Repair Only” policy, which Crappy Tire has invented for notoriously faulty products like the Simonize pressure washers. That’s the policy that says it can’t be returned, even if it’s kaput, right out of the box."
    good, now we are back on track.
    yesterday at 10:27 & 10:46 i posted links (as requested) to canadian retailer operators at lowe's, walmart, home depot and johndeere (who is both a retailer and a manufacturer) specifically citing their repair warranties. in some cases they even go as far as making the customer PAY for the option to bypass repair and have it replaced. nice warranty, pay more lol. all of the above state that parts and labour are covered for x years. that's a repair warranty. some of them state things like may take up to 14 days to repair and return the item. some will repair or give you a REFURBISHED (not new) item.

    there is zero interpretation to be made in any of those. they are written plain as day, black and white, nothing left to guess about. retailers repair power equipment, not refund the money.

    now, haven proven without interpretation that it is not canadiantire only who has these repair policies for power equipment i ask you the following questions.

    1) did the three postings specifically address your claim that ct and only ct making illegal repair policies?

    2) do you believe the policies are still illegal and if so then are you claiming each of these retailers to be engaging in illegal practices?
    or
    3) are you willing to be influenced into understanding that there are no laws being broken with repair only policies?

    i find it rather entertaining that your most recent posts only address unregistered and completely avoid or ignore the information i have posted.

  6. #96
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    1 - Unsubstantiated claims.
    2 - Misrepresented facts.
    3 - False accusations.
    4 - Changing the subject.

    Why won't they try a 5th option: relevant references to reputable sources?

    Maybe because there aren't any?

    (OK, there was that one thing about Home Hardware. Score 1 point ... out of 12. And even 'lawguy' wrote, "research must be in depth, not shallow assuming first link has all details").

    If one simply ignores those 4 little tricks, I believe all the noise fades away, and it's clear that it's all just a lot of hot air. Nothing of any substance is being presented.
    i best address this as well

    1 - claims have been substantiated in my most recent posting. my claim is that the repair only policy is not unique to the tire. i have proven that
    2 - facts are the facts. the links provided are links to the canadian arms of retailers with their canadian policies and contracts stated. that's factual, no interpretation.
    3 - false accusations - not sure which ones
    4- changing the subject - i posted your words that it was a ct invention to repair items under warranty and your words that the policy is illegal. no paraphrasing, no interpretation, no guessing, no word twisting. copy and paste what you typed. i then directly addressed those claims. that was not a changed subject, it was your claim, my direct rebuttal


    be sure to tip your waitress, i'll be here all week

  7. #97
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    Dear ‘lawguy’:

    You seem to think I “requested” something from you. I’m pretty sure I’d remember. Oh, well.

    Your contributions to the discussion on retailers' refund/exchange/repair policies hasn’t consisted to any links about, well, retailers' refund/exchange/repair policies. That’s why I believe you are just trying to change the topic.

    Maybe you are just really, really confused? For instance, your links to Lowes and Walmart are just extended warranties.

    Now, this might seem like a strange idea, but hear me out. Are you trying to look exclusively at a store’s extend warranty, and then somehow infer the retailer’s policies on refunds/exchanges/repairs from that? Wouldn’t it just be easier to find the actual policy? That’s the only thing that would be really convincing.

    Oh, and regarding that Walmart extended warranty? You wrote, “repair or replace with new or refurbished AT OUR OPTION (clearly stated)”. But if you actually read it, there are two types of extended warranties: the “Extended Service Repair Plan” and the “Product Replacement Plan”. The customer can decide to purchase one or the other. There are also other things you misunderstood in there, too; you can’t just do a search for “option”.

    I’m afraid I’m going to have to put that down as “Trick #2 - Misrepresented facts”, big time.

    It was fascinating to read the product page about the Home Depot lawn mower, which can be ordered online from their web store. Oh, but did you happen to stumble upon anything about their policies while you were there? Just trying to keep things on-topic.

    I found the link to the manufacturer’s web site on John Deere also very interesting. But you aren’t suggesting they are a “major retailer” are you? If so, can you quote some data to back that up? How many Canadians shop at their local John Deere store on a weekly basis, that kind of thing.

    Oh, and you ‘forgot’ to post a link to the John Deere retails store’s refund/exchange/repair policy. I’m sure you’ll find it soon.

    Near the end of this fascinating (but irrelevant) list of links, you wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by lawguy View Post
    there is no credible way to refute this evidence. it clearly states these retailers repair not replace at their discretion.
    Um, maybe I’m a little slow on this snowy Sunday afternoon, but can you please be more specific about how these extended warranty, product pages and manufacturer’s warranty pages have any relevance to the retailer’s policies on refunds, exchanges and repairs? Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by lawguy View Post
    i rest my case
    Sorry – what case was that, again?

  8. #98
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    i can not possibly spell things out clearer.

    your claim is canadian tire invented a repair policy for certain items under warranty and that it is illegal.

    read each of those links i provided. it clearly states the warranty will cover parts and labour (ie. - they repair it) for x years for things such as chainsaws, leafblowers, mowers, pressurewashers etc....

    it further states on some of them that extended warranties are available for purchase that will provide a replacement product instead of a repair. you must pay for this option and even still it may be a refurb not a new replacement.

    there's no easier way to put it man. other companies repair items under warranty for customers. same as canadian tire does. it's not illegal. your claim that ct invented the policy and that it's illegal is wrong.
    i can find probably a dozen posts of yours where you've made that statement. so i'm stating back, with the proof that every major retailer repairs power equipment under warranty.

    i am not inferring john deere is a major retailer, they are however a retailer of said products, and they repair warranty items. so unless major retailers and small retailers have different laws, which they don't, you're still wrong.

    there is no topic change. there is no misunderstanding. there is no dancing around the subject. there is proof and facts as you always request. it is direct proof that other companies in the same business selling the same products as ct have the same procedure.

  9. #99
    Posted by an unregistered user Guest-0421's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    Poor DavidLer....kind of getting shot down on your "theory" on a regular basis now. I particularly like it when you play deflect and restate in your posts. Unless you believe that everyone that reads this post is too lazy to read various retailers return policies, or the sign that most of them post in their stores, or on their receipt, or in their owners manual, why do you think you have so little support. Funny how my WeedEater weedwacker had a big STOP sign inside the box...."Do Not Return to Retailer....Call 1-800." Isn't that kind of illegal of them? I bought it at Pro Hardware.....You think they slipped it in there to piss me off as a consumer....those cheating bastards!
    Again...the reason you have so little support in your "theory" or opinion, as I like to call it, is that it just doesn't hold water.
    this is all getting kind of lame.....you calling it black when it is white, and then others showing you that it really is white....and then you going, nah...it's black.

  10. #100
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    there was some diesel left in my backhoe so i decided to bury some more

    let's move away from the usual suspects, canadiantire, depot etc...
    here's a copy of warranty policy for playstation 3 from sony.

    PlayStation®3 | Warranties | Support - PlayStation.com
    Sony Computer Entertainment America ("SCEA") warrants to the original purchaser that the PS3™ hardware shall be free from material defects in material and workmanship for a period of one (1) year from the original date of purchase (the "Warranty Period"). If the product is determined to be materially defective during the Warranty Period, your sole remedy and SCEA's sole and exclusive liability shall be limited to the repair or replacement of this product with a new or refurbished product at SCEA's option. (the first paragraph copied to save you time)

    before you jump in i am aware this is the us website...scroll to the bottom it says this warranty applies in canada and the u.s.

    *********************
    Apple
    Apple - One Year Limited Warranty - Worldwide - Apple Store (Canada)
    Apple’s warranty obligations are limited to the terms set forth below: Apple, as defined below, warrants this Apple-branded hardware product against defects in materials and workmanship under normal use for a period of ONE (1) YEAR from the date of retail purchase by the original end-user purchaser (“Warranty Period”). If a hardware defect arises and a valid claim is received within the Warranty Period, at its option, Apple will either (1) repair the hardware defect at no charge, using new or refurbished replacement parts, or (2) exchange the product with a product that is new or which has been manufactured from new or serviceable used parts and is at least functionally equivalent to the original product, or (3) refund the purchase price of the product
    (first paragraph copied again)
    note several things - at its option Apple will (not consumer choice, seller choice) repair, replace or refund. repair may include refurb parts.

    *************************
    Milwaukee Electric Tool - Power Tool Warranty
    MILWAUKEE POWER TOOLS
    Every MILWAUKEE power tool (including cordless product – tool, battery pack(s) - see separate & distinct CORDLESS BATTERY PACK LIMITED WARRANTY statements & battery charger and Work Lights*) is warranted to the original purchaser only to be free from defects in material and workmanship. Subject to certain exceptions, MILWAUKEE will repair or replace any part on an electric power tool which, after examination, is determined by MILWAUKEE to be defective in material or workmanship for a period of five (5) years* after the date of purchase unless otherwise noted.
    (applicable to canada and united states as noted at bottom of warranty page)

    ******************
    LEATHERMAN (makers of knives and multi tools - high quality)
    Leatherman Warranty: North America
    If you are in Canada or the United States and you'd like to send your Leatherman product in for warranty repair, please download and complete the Warranty Return Form below. The form must be completed, signed and included with your product in order for us to process your warranty request.
    (repair?) must be illegal

    **************************

    there you have it folks... me being a forceful prick on a sunday afternoon. ramming information down the throat of mr. davidler only for the purpose of my own self satisfaction i must admit lol

    from electronics to powertools to knives, all warranties involving REPAIR, all at the discretion of the seller not the consumer.

    now i ask again, are you 100% sure that repair warranties are illegal in canada?

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