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Thread: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

  1. #101
    Posted by an unregistered user Angry CT Guy's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    Talk about a chainsaw of facts...lol. Lawguy, don't forget that Canadian Tire "invented" this illegal practice.....I guess every one else just adopted it.

  2. #102
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    The recent discussions on this thread closely reflect the situation in the larger marketplace itself.

    Most of these major stores’ polices provide at least a small period of time (at the very least 7 days) in which to bring back a defective item, either for a refund or exchange. I’ve referred to these as the “Minimum Time” policies, and they are not at all the same as a manufacturer’s warranty, or an extenson to the manufacturer's warranty.

    The average shopper has come to expect that a major retailer will have policies that go above and beyond the very basic warranties that the manufacturers provide.

    But the consumer will be disappointed to learn that Canadian Tire has, instead, a “No Minimum Time” policy, i.e. that “The manufacturer’s warranty will apply”. Nothing extra at CT.

    It seems difficult for ‘lawguy’, Unregistered and the other self-appointed CT defenders like 'CT Me' who post here to even grasp this basic fact: that the OTHER stores have chosen to go BEYOND the manufacturer’s warranty when it comes to refunds and exchanges.

    In fact, these CT defenders seem unable to even break free of that mind-set, and have instead been endlessly posting the manufacturers’ warranties, and even resorting to the various extensions to those policies. As if that somehow proves something.

    Of course, there is also the possibility that these CT defenders are deliberately attempting to ‘bury’ the truth in an avalanche of irrelevant postings. That might say more about Canadian Tire's attitude than anything I could post here.

    A similar mind-set exists regarding Crappy Tire's “repair only” policy, which does not allow for any refund or exchange, even for an out-of-the-box defect. Not within the first week, day, hour or even minute.

    Despite considerable efforts, no-one has found a link or other reference to even a single major retailer who has even a variation of this policy. When I’ve described this policy at other stores, I’ve seen jaws literally drop. They cannot believe that a store would actually have such a policy.

    But how are things viewed over at Crappy Tire? We need only look at the examples of confess store owner 'CT Me' and the CT defenders ‘lawguy’ and Unregistered. They actually seem to think this is the norm, and that other stores have the exact, same policy. They even believe they’ve proven this is the case at other stores!

    (I have given CT credit for "inventing" this policy. However, I'll admit I might be giving them too much credit for creativity. They may actually have 'borrowed' the idea from some as-yet-unidentified retailer. Although there's no evidence of this, I should maybe just say that CT "is the only one to have such a policy", and leave it at that.)

    Is the case simply that CT defenders 'lawguy', Unregistered and 'CT Me' have been too-deeply indoctrinated into the “repair only” way of business? Or, is it a deliberate attempt to ‘bury’ the truth?

  3. #103
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    well there you have it folks. your fearless leader davidler has dropped his long fought argument that a repair only policy is illegal.

  4. #104
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    oh and before i forget, you have grossly erred in your analysis and understanding of ct's policy on certain items. i made an inquiry with a local store this morning regarding their warranty on a simoniz electric pressure washer and guess what... 7 day over the counter exchange, then repair warranty applies after 7 days. hey look, same as other retailers. i also know, having purchased an rca lcd television there over the holidays that 30 days over the counter exchange if it dies, warranty applies beyond 30 days.

    i don't know or care where you reside or which store(s) you beef with. the stores that i frequent have a really cool procedure in place for items that i assume to have customers attention when it comes to warranty. their cashiers have a folder at their tills with printouts of various warranty policies. a register warning pops up telling them to give the warranty sheet to the customer. i don't know in depth which items this covers but i do know most mowers, tractors and pressurewashers are there.

    i would also like to thank unregistered for noting about the stop sign warning in the box of the item he got that says do not return to store. contact manufacturer tech line first. reminded me that when i bought my poulan pro chainsaw, the same document was enclosed.

  5. #105
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    In case anyone is still wondering about the consumer protection laws in the province of Ontario, you can find links to reputable sources stating that a customer is entitled to a refund (or an exchange, if the customer prefers) for a defective item within this earlier post:

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidLeR View Post
    Thanks for the information, and especially for the tips on when to shop, how to shop, and how to deal with returns ….. However, some of your statements are incorrect, at least in provinces that have a Consumer Protection Act (CPA).
    If you have any questions about the above statements, you are encouraged to contact the Ministry or the maintainers of the web pages directly.

    If anyone has additional references to relevant, reputable sources regarding the laws in the province of Ontario, please let me know.

    Notes:

    - We already have that ambiguous BBB site in London.
    - As proven in the prior post, retailers’ policies cannot ‘trump’ the laws of Ontario.
    - Manufacturers' warranties and extended warranties are a separate issue, and will not be discussed.

    -----

    Canadian Tire attempts to enforce a policy (known as the “Repair Only” policy), which does not provide for refunds nor exchanges on some of Canadian Tire's items (such as some gasoline-powered equipment).

    Evidence of this can be found at your local Canadian Tire store.

    Based on the proven fact (see above) that the laws in Ontario require retailers to provide a refund or exchanged (at the customer’s discretion) for a defective item, it is clear that Crappy Tire’s “Repair Only” policy violates that law, and is therefore illegal.

    Similarly, for Canadian Tire’s policy on defective items in general, it is illegal for Canadian Tire to refuse to provide a refund or exchanged (at the customer’s discretion) for any defective item, regardless of what the “manufacturer’s warranty” may state.

    If you have any questions about the above statements, you are encouraged to contact the Ministry or the owners of the web pages referenced in the prior post.

    -----

    In case anyone is still wondering whether other major retailers in Ontario also try to enforce an illegal "no refunds, no exchanges" policy for defective items, you can find some links to various retailer’s policies within this post:

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidLeR View Post
    There are two major ways Canadian Tire’s policies are worse than other retailers (both of which violate the laws of Ontario):
    Based on the accumulated evidence related to the policies of major retailers operating in Ontario, it appears that Canadian Tire is unique among them in attempting to enforce an illegal “Repair Only” policy.

    I am still researching this topic, so if anyone has additional references to relevant, reputable sources regarding the policies of major Ontario retailers, please let me know.

    Note that manufacturer’s warranties and extended warranties are different and unique from a retailer’s policy, and are not relevant to this discussion, as explained in this earlier post:

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidLeR View Post
    The recent discussions on this thread closely reflect the situation in the larger marketplace itself.
    I hope that the above is helpful to those who may be genuinely seeking information.

    DavidLeR

  6. #106
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    holy cow man are you for real? you are stubborn like a mule

    canadiantire's policy is exactly the same as all of the other retailers posted about 6 posts previously.
    if it's broken, it gets repaired. simple. nothing illegal. they all same the same damn thing. power equipment is repaired or replaced at the sellers discretion during the warranty period and may utilize refurbished parts for the repair.

    incidentally, please provide the exact link and page number, not your interpretation of... i mean the exact wording that says;

    1) the right to repair an item policy is illegal
    2) the customer decides how the warranty is handled

    why is it that you refuse to answer questions and continually point to the CPA website which has legal terms open to interpretation?
    do you consider links directly to the sites of retailers who clearly state repair warranty as reputable and relevant?

  7. #107
    Posted by an unregistered user Guest-0421's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidLeR View Post
    In case anyone is still wondering about the consumer protection laws in the province of Ontario, you can find links to reputable sources stating that a customer is entitled to a refund (or an exchange, if the customer prefers) for a defective item within this earlier post:



    If you have any questions about the above statements, you are encouraged to contact the Ministry or the maintainers of the web pages directly.

    If anyone has additional references to relevant, reputable sources regarding the laws in the province of Ontario, please let me know.

    Notes:

    - We already have that ambiguous BBB site in London.
    - As proven in the prior post, retailers’ policies cannot ‘trump’ the laws of Ontario.
    - Manufacturers' warranties and extended warranties are a separate issue, and will not be discussed.

    -----

    Canadian Tire attempts to enforce a policy (known as the “Repair Only” policy), which does not provide for refunds nor exchanges on some of Canadian Tire's items (such as some gasoline-powered equipment).

    Evidence of this can be found at your local Canadian Tire store.

    Based on the proven fact (see above) that the laws in Ontario require retailers to provide a refund or exchanged (at the customer’s discretion) for a defective item, it is clear that Crappy Tire’s “Repair Only” policy violates that law, and is therefore illegal.

    Similarly, for Canadian Tire’s policy on defective items in general, it is illegal for Canadian Tire to refuse to provide a refund or exchanged (at the customer’s discretion) for any defective item, regardless of what the “manufacturer’s warranty” may state.

    If you have any questions about the above statements, you are encouraged to contact the Ministry or the owners of the web pages referenced in the prior post.

    -----

    In case anyone is still wondering whether other major retailers in Ontario also try to enforce an illegal "no refunds, no exchanges" policy for defective items, you can find some links to various retailer’s policies within this post:



    Based on the accumulated evidence related to the policies of major retailers operating in Ontario, it appears that Canadian Tire is unique among them in attempting to enforce an illegal “Repair Only” policy.

    I am still researching this topic, so if anyone has additional references to relevant, reputable sources regarding the policies of major Ontario retailers, please let me know.

    Note that manufacturer’s warranties and extended warranties are different and unique from a retailer’s policy, and are not relevant to this discussion, as explained in this earlier post:



    I hope that the above is helpful to those who may be genuinely seeking information.

    DavidLeR
    Ever notice that when challenged with facts from other retailers or even the apparently "ambiguous" Better Business Bureau (because they wouldn't know), DavidLer dismisses them.....this is what I mean in the Black is White comment.
    He knows he's wrong, he insists he's right and for those of you really interested in the truth....just ask your retailer BEFORE you buy something what the warranty entails and how returns are handled.....That is a pretty consistent comment from the likes of Ellen Roseman (and she doesn't say "Only at Canadian Tire"....I wonder why THAT is)
    DavidLer went from someone who seemed like he actually was looking to help, to someone that is presenting his version of the truth, with snippets from lengthy articles and legal acts and trying to pass them off as correct by his interpretation. He's been proven wrong at every turn, yet still says Black is White......I think it's time to call a spade, a spade.....DavidLer has a hidden agenda....which I'm sure will become more apparent as time goes on.

  8. #108
    Posted by an unregistered user Angry CT Guy's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    I don't normally jump into these types of discussions, but DavidLer, where are you getting your information? I work at a Canadian Tire in Etobicoke and I can tell you that all of our products have an initial defect solution. It may be an exchange or the dealer may have to make an exception to satisfy the customer, but I can't think of anything that we sell where there is zero solution other than so sad, too bad. I know that each store is independently owned, so there may be differences between them, but I can honestly say that our store goes the extra mile to service our customer.

  9. #109

    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I work at a Canadian Tire in Etobicoke and I can tell you that all of our products have an initial defect solution. It may be an exchange or the dealer may have to make an exception to satisfy the customer, but I can't think of anything that we sell where there is zero solution other than so sad, too bad.
    sounds like theres a guy posting here in another thread that isn't gettin any of your tlc you are describing

    its here

    Canadian Tire doesn't honor their return policy?

    any way why should there have to be an exception to give an honest customer a working vacuum?

    same kinda thing with this guy. same thread. air compressor in feb. now hes shopping at hd

    Canadian Tire doesn't honor their return policy?

    repair only is maybe not so sad to bad at your store but tell that to these guys and all the others who have been ripped of by ct.

  10. #110
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: EVOLVE TREADMILL,TEMPO -Canadian Tire ,3516 8th ave NE Calgary - CAN'T BE RETURNED!!!!!!!

    On the 7th I wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidLeR View Post
    In case anyone is still wondering about the consumer protection laws in the province of Ontario, you can find links to reputable sources ... within this earlier post:
    A few hours later, someone wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    DavidLer, where are you getting your information?
    So, it sounds like I need to re-post the actually links right here. See below for the updated version.

    -----

    Regarding the requirement for Ontario retailers to provide refunds for defective products, two Ontario laws are especially relevant:
    - The Sale of Goods Act (SGA of 1994), to be found at "Sale of Goods Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. S.1".

    - The Consumer Protection Act (CPA of 2002) to be found at "Consumer Protection Act, 2002 - O. Reg. 17/05"
    -----

    To head off the usual questions, some notes are in order regarding policies and warranties:
    - There is no law requiring a store to provide a refund or exchange simply because a customer changed their mind.

    - However, most stores have their own policy regarding refunds and exchanges for ‘change of mind’ returns, in order to attract customers.

    - When a product is defective, a customer may be able to obtain an exchange or a repair using the manufacturer’s warranty, or a separately-purchased extension to that warranty.

    - A store provides a policy. A manufacturer provides a warranty. It's important to keep that straight.

    - Nothing in the manufacturer's warranty limits what the store could choose for a policy regarding refunds or exchanges.

    - If a customer would prefer a refund (instead of an exchange or repair), the laws of Ontario require that the retailer (not the manufacturer) provide a refund, as explained at the links provided.
    Regarding the links I have listed:
    - The links are to reputable sources who have experience with and understanding of the SGA and CPA.

    - If you believe a statement on one of the referenced sites is incorrect, please contact the maintainer of that web site.

    - The list of links is continuously being expanded, so I’m interested in additional links, if others know of them.

    - Links to incomplete, ambiguous, or apocryphal sites are of little value. Especially links to manufacturers' warranties.
    -----

    1 – Ellen Roseman, “If the product's a dud, insist on your money back"

    "If the product's a dud, insist on your money back - moneyville.ca Blogs"
    “… retailers have to sell you a product that works.If you find a dud in the package when you open it, don't let them shrug off their obligation to give your money back.”
    2 – Ellen Roseman, “Working to fix products that don’t work"

    Roseman: Working to fix products that don't
    "I’m shocked that some people wait so long to get appliances working again. Under the law, manufacturers and retailers have a duty to supply products fit for the intended purpose … If you’re stranded, go to small claims court and cite the Sale of Goods Act as an argument to get your money back."
    3 – Miller Tomson, “ARE YOU READY FOR THE ONTARIO CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT, 2002?”

    "http://www.millerthomson.com/assets/...05%20Final.pdf"
    “When a consumer cancels an agreement, the supplier must refund any payment made and must return any good delivered in a trade-in arrangement … The supplier must do this within fifteen (15) days."
    4 – O’Connor MacLeod Hanna, “Ontario’s New Consumer Protection Law”

    "http://www.omh.ca/ontarios-new-consumer-protection-law.html"
    Includes similar statements to Miller Thomson.
    5 - “Is that legal”, the Free Online Legal Guides to Ontario and Canadian Law – General Rights

    "LEGAL GUIDE: CONSUMER PROTECTION LAW (ONTARIO) - Ch.5: General Consumer Rights"

    I included this for the clarity of some descriptions, such as:
    “there is … an 'implied condition of merchantability' (freedom from defects) where the seller regularly deals in the product and the purchaser has not inspected the goods before purchase [SGA s.15].”
    I also like:
    “Any attempt by a supplier … to avoid or vary the above-noted (SGA and CPA) statutory warranties or conditions with respect to consumer transactions, is void … You cannot give these rights up, even if you want to.”
    6 – “Is that legal”, the Free Online Legal Guides to Ontario and Canadian Law – Civil Remedies

    "LEGAL GUIDE: CONSUMER PROTECTION LAW (ONTARIO) - Ch.7: General Civil Remedies (I)"
    “As the consumer's consideration in a consumer agreement is invariably money paid (and maybe some 'traded-in' property), restitution to the consumer by a supplier is relatively straightforward. The supplier shall "within 15 days after the day the consumer gives notice to the supplier ... that the consumer is cancelling the consumer agreement"
    7 – The Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

    The most reputable source of all: the people who created the CPA.

    "Legislative Assembly of Ontario | Bills & Lawmaking | Past & Present | 37:3 Bill 180, Consumer Protection Statute Law Amendment Act, 2002"

    -----

    Finally, I feel obligated to include one more link, even though it does not go as far as the other 7 regarding a mandatory refund. Although poorly-written, it does at least state that the seller has to "make good", rather than allowing them to pass the buck to the manufacturer.

    It also makes the distinction between a “policy” and a “warranty” (which some people seem to find easily confused).

    "Refunds & Exchanges - BBB News Center"
    “Regardless of a store's policy, if the goods you have purchased were misrepresented or are defective, you have every reason to expect the store to provide a suitable substitute or refund, or make proper repairs. The laws in Ontario require a store to make good in such cases.”
    ----

    I hope this is of assistance to consumers who are seeking to obtain a refund (or even just an exchange) for a defective item.

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