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Thread: Sale of Goods Act

  1. #11
    Posted by an unregistered user Guest-0276's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    you had to use the big can of raid logic didn't you Dave. It'll be weeks before we see those pesky roaches

  2. #12
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Well if nothing else , we have the same idea to settle this DavidLer
    I spoke with both Service Alberta & Saskatchewan Consumer Affairs. I explained who I was and the situation as follows;

    "I am a retailer from Canadian Tire. My customer has purchased a pressure washer in the last 30 days. The item carries a 1 year documented repair warranty for defects. the customer is insisting that under consumer protection law, they have the right to demand a refund and bypass the repair warranty. Am I bound by any law or legislation that gives the customer this right or can i adhere to the repair policy and send them to the authorized repair depot?"

    Both told me that the seller of the goods (me) has the right to determine any and all warranty policies for all goods sold as set by the Fair Trading Act. The lady at Service Alberta followed by stating the only right to such would be in the case of a safety recall, in which case the customer is entitled to a full refund or replacement.

    In regards to retailers setting their own return policies (warranty or otherwise) you may be interested to read this timely bit of info, posted just this morning by the LCBO Attention shoppers: Hang on to those LCBO receipts - thestar.com
    **********
    The Liquor Control Board of Ontario has quietly changed its return policy so customers will require a receipt to get a refund or exchange a bottle.
    As of Sept. 30, the provincially owned monopoly has decreed that retail customers have only 30 days from the date of purchase to get their money back or turn in unwanted products for something else.
    In the event that a customer has lost or misplaced a receipt, the store manager could issue a gift card worth the amount of the bottle.
    “This is a move to align us with other retailers that have similar policies,” the LCBO’s Steve Erwin said Monday.
    ************
    Important to note that it states the LCBO has changed its policies. Not the Government, not a legislation change. This from a Provincially owned corporation. Again I reitterate.... individual companies have the absolute right to choose their policies for returns and warranties with no interference from Government

  3. #13
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Well if nothing else, we have the same idea to settle this DavidLer
    I spoke with both Service Alberta & Saskatchewan Consumer Affairs.
    "CT ME" and I were discussing BC and Ontario, but for some weird reason they posted links for:

    - Alberta at "http://www.servicealberta.gov.ab.ca/...tisfaction.pdf". It looks like this site confirms what you wrote for Alberta.

    - Manitoba at "http://www.gov.mb.ca/fs/cca/cpo/pdf/Warrantiesd_Guarantees.pdf", which seems to have a law similar to Ontario and BC., and might well make "repair only" warranties illegal.

    - Nova Scotia at "Service Nova Scotia - Consumer Information - Guarantees and Warranties". To be honest, I haven't look at it closely.

    Rearding Sask, I have no idea. (I used to live there. Liked it, but too flat!). If you say they have no such law, I'm willing to take your word for it. At least you are providing some actual evidence, and not just spouting nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    In regards to retailers setting their own return policies (warranty or otherwise) you may be interested to read this timely bit of info, posted just this morning by the LCBO
    I agree with you on unwanted goods, which is what the LCBO story is about. There doesn't seem to be any legislation on unwanted goods, so it's up to the seller to set their own policies.

    But, be careful to compare apples to apples. The discussion has been about defective products, not unwanted ones. There is a big difference, legally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Again I reitterate.... individual companies have the absolute right to choose their policies for returns and warranties with no interference from Government
    And again I reiterate:

    Some provinces (including BC and Ontario) have enacted legislation that, for defective goods, absolutely trumps any policies a seller may wish to set.

    Please, have a look at the links I posted.

    Hey, do you think you could try phoning BC, too, and let us know what they say?

    I can check Quebec ...

  4. #14
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    That was actually me that posted unregistered... my mistake. Which poses an interesting question... had you known it was me would you have taken my word for it? LOL

    So I called into the Ontario branch to continue checking. Here is the clarification I received in regards to your post
    I believe the confusion is coming in the terminology of Unfair Practices and Representation of product performance. (Since we like pressure washers i'm staying there) If a customer bought a 1750 PSI pressure washer with accessory a, b & c included in the box the item has to be as it is stated... a 1750 PSI washer with whatever functions are listed on the box. If the customer opens the box and it's a 1200PSI unit, or a toaster, then that is misrepresentation.
    So if it's the right item... we continue.....
    If after a month of use, or a day of use it begins to leak, they do not classify that as a misrepresentation of product. Pointing back to section 9 (reasonable quality of goods) he stated and i quote "there is no law or legislation that sets what remedy or course of action must be taken by the retailer to rectify the problem. The business has flexibility to determine the best course of action to remedy the problem. If the customer is unsatisfied with that plan, the option they have is to take the business to court" i typed it as he was speaking to me LOL
    My last question to him and I quote was "is a warranty that states, repair of a defective item legal in Ontario" He said "Yes in Ontario it is absolutely legal"

    In your last post you noted to check Quebec... it's not really an exercise i'd recommend diving into unless you've got lots of time. Quebec laws are vastly different. For example, a product warranty is transferrable from owner to owner. Not so in other Provinces.

    By your own claim DavidLer you have said that you like to find holes in peoples logic and dive into them.....which is why you like this forum. I am the exact same way. You probably will not believe what i've stated here but I know without a doubt, 100% what rules i am bound by as a retailer. I have not researched or refreshed my memory ina few years until this debate came up, which has been an interesting process.

  5. #15
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    To anyone who has fallen victim to the “Repair Only” trap:

    For Ontario and BC (and likely for other provinces), if you purchase a defective product, there are laws in place that entitles you to a replacement or a refund from the seller (such as Canadian Tire). It is not necessary for you to wait for a repair through the manufacturer.

    In these provinces, the “Repair Only” policy is merely an invention of Canadian Tire, and exists solely to take money out of your wallet, and transfer it to the owner’s.

    I strongly encourage you to check the Consumer Protection laws in your province, and to contact your Consumer Protection ministry.

    In Ontario, see the Consumer Protection Act of 2002 at " Consumer Protection Act, 2002, S.O. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A "and call the Ministry of Consumer Services at 1-800-889-9768.

    If the retailer refuses to replace the defective product or to issue you a refund, you may be entitled to a remedy through your credit card issuer. This is spelled out in the legislation in Ontario.

    Don’t take my word for it, or the word of any self-serving Canadian Tire representatives, who may be posting here under a variety of names.

    Do your homework. Shop at reputable stores. Know your rights, and insist that they be respected. Do not remain a victim.

    And most of all, beware of yet another rip-off brought to you by Canadian Tire.

  6. #16
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Dear Consumer
    Please do not be misled, it will penalize you more then anyone else. Repair warranties are absolutely legal in all Provinces. Consumer Protection legislation have mechanisms to ensure you are treated fairly and that the warranties as set out by sellers are adhered to. These same legislations do not entitle you to set your own warranty terms, or bypass the terms as set out by the seller.

    As DavidLer and company have suggested, do your homework before you purchase an item and know the terms of the warranty, and in the case of repair warranty who is authorized to fix them, where they are located and does warranty cover parts, labour or both.

    If you do get a defective product, you will of course be disappointed by its quality and function when it is broken. Do not be misled into believing a Government agency will come galloping in as your knight in shining armour to save the day as you will SURELY be more disappointed when they do not.

  7. #17
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    you had to use the big can of raid logic didn't you Dave. It'll be weeks before we see those pesky roaches
    I think you've underestimated the tenacity of the roaches.

  8. #18
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    It looks like one of my earlier links, to the BC "defective goods" site didn't get pasted properly.

    Here it is again: "Buying Defective Goods"

    This is written by The Canadian Bar Association, British Columbia Branch, and described "what you can do if you’ve bought a product or items (called “goods”), which turn out to be defective."

    It says, in part, "You should immediately return the goods to the seller. Request an exchange for replacement goods. If a replacement product isn’t available, ask for a refund".

    (I really love this part: "If ... you’re still met with resistance in obtaining either a replacement or refund ..." Gee, like that ever happens!)

    Be warned: in a few minutes, somebody who owns a Canadian Tire store, and doesn't want you to get your legally-entitled refund, may decide to post a little message saying how this won't work, it's only half the story, please just take it up with the manufacturer, don't force me to give you your money back, please don't sue me, you are just a lazy customer, too-bad-so-sad, etc.

    Well, If you want to take your consumer rights advise from a store-owner, and not a consumer rights lawyer, that's your choice.

    Have you heard the saying, "Never ask a barber whether you need a haircut"?

    Well, never ask a Canadian Tire store owner if you are entitled to a refund!

  9. #19
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Assorted warranty research, related to what we've discussed. All info directly from their websites.
    So I ask ... are repair warranties in fact invented by Canadian Tire just to fatten the bottom line, as you have claimed?
    or
    is it in fact legal, normal and standard business practice for most Canadian retailers to

    Home DepotGasoline-powered equipment may be returned within 30 days of purchase with a valid sales receipt. After 30 days, item may be sent out for repair at the customer's expense, unless covered under warranty.

    Lowe's CanadaTraditional manufacturer warranties cover defects in parts and workmanship typically for the first year, while the Lowe's Extended Protection Plan provides customers with product protection that enhances and extends the manufacturer's limited warranty. With the Lowe's Extended Protection Plan, your product will be serviced or repaired to like-new working condition.
    With the Lowe's Replacement Plan, we will replace eligible products costing less than $200 for the full replacement value of the product, including tax. No repairs necessary.

    Home HardwareAll merchandise is subject to the manufacturer’s warranty & will be repaired or replaced as per the manufacturer’s directions. We regret that cut materials and special-order merchandise are not returnable

    RONAService centres for repair of RONA power tools and outdoor equipement
    Please visit www.mecanair.net in order to locate the nearest service centre. You will also have access to instruction manuals for the various products.

  10. #20
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidLeR View Post
    It looks like one of my earlier links, to the BC "defective goods" site didn't get pasted properly.

    Here it is again: "Buying Defective Goods"

    This is written by The Canadian Bar Association, British Columbia Branch, and described "what you can do if you’ve bought a product or items (called “goods”), which turn out to be defective."

    It says, in part, "You should immediately return the goods to the seller. Request an exchange for replacement goods. If a replacement product isn’t available, ask for a refund".

    (I really love this part: "If ... you’re still met with resistance in obtaining either a replacement or refund ..." Gee, like that ever happens!)

    Be warned: in a few minutes, somebody who owns a Canadian Tire store, and doesn't want you to get your legally-entitled refund, may decide to post a little message saying how this won't work, it's only half the story, please just take it up with the manufacturer, don't force me to give you your money back, please don't sue me, you are just a lazy customer, too-bad-so-sad, etc.

    Well, If you want to take your consumer rights advise from a store-owner, and not a consumer rights lawyer, that's your choice.

    Have you heard the saying, "Never ask a barber whether you need a haircut"?

    Well, never ask a Canadian Tire store owner if you are entitled to a refund!
    So instead your suggestion is to ask a lawyer if you have a case? LOL pssst here's a tip, lawyers work on billable hours. It will take $150 bucks retainer to have him/her even review your inquiry. If you read the clip above and follow the link you will see it says request a refund or replacement. There is no mention of warranty, or repair. They skip right to threaten to sue LOL Typical lawyer
    It also states specifically goods must be reasonably fit for their intended purpose, citing a specific example, if you buy a wood saw to cut metal, you have no recourse. Reasonably fit does not mean that it can't break.
    Don't take your consumer rights advice from me ... take them from those who legislate it, Consumer Affairs, Service Alberta etc... .... links posted many times in previous posts. I suggest not trying to interpret the legalities in their descriptions. Do exactly as I did... pick up the phone call and say I bought this...this is the warranty...do i have the RIGHT to a refund or do I have to have it repaired? Ask who legally sets the laws for warranties and returns. They will tell you straight out, the sellers and manufacturers choose the terms of warranty, by law.

    PS - Refunds for defective products do not cost the business money. The business is refunded the cost of the defective product. Refunds for unused items (ie put back into my inventory for sale) don't cost money either. In accounting there's a thing called an asset. Inventory is an asset. So for the 89 bucks I gave back to a customer in cash, I now have an 89 dollar asset on the books.

    While I respect your conviction in this matter, you're beating a dead horse. Surely in reading through some of the sections and subsections of certain acts, there is some open lines in interpreting what they mean, and in some cases they loosely indicate that you can request a refund or exchange. The term REQUEST is the key factor. You absolutely have the right to make the request. Nowhere does it state that the seller must do as you request.
    A written warranty is a contract..... once you've bought it, you're bound by those warranty terms.

    PS - Your credit card company will not help you solve the matter. They will not cancel the charge. If the seller can prove that you signed for the purchase, or in the new age, entered your PIN number to authorize a transaction, a credit card company will not reverse the charge.

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