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Thread: Sale of Goods Act

  1. #21
    Posted by an unregistered user Guest-0276's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    the ct dingbat doth protest too much

  2. #22
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Regarding credit card companies, the Ontario Consumer Protection Act, 2002 (see Consumer Protection Act, 2002, S.O. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A) mentions this specifically.

    In Section 99 ("Consumerís recourse re: credit card charges") it states,

    "A consumer who has charged to a credit card account all or any part of a payment described in subsection (2) may request the credit card issuer to cancel or reverse the credit card charge and any associated interest or other charges"

    According to subsection 2, this applies to (among other things) "a payment in respect of a consumer agreement that has been cancelled under this Act or in respect of any related agreement"

    Now, brace yourselves for a lengthy "no-it's-not" posting containing more lies, misrepresentations and unrelated topics from people whose banks accounts will shrink if you exercise your rights in this regard.

    "Caveat Emptor" applies to information, as well as products, supplied by Crappy Tire and their deceitful and devious supporters.

  3. #23
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Now you're calling me a liar? up until now DavidLer you have done well in attempts to prove your points while remaining diplomatic and not stooping to the level of insults that a bunch of these ass hats have as their only weapon in debate.

    So tell me, what is your response to your claim that repair only warranties are CT invented, having now seen that Home Depot, Rona, Home Hardward and Lowe's all have the same policies?

  4. #24
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    In a recent posting, a self-confessed owner of a Crappy Tire store claimed that Home Depot, Rona, “Home Hardward” (huh?) and Lowe's “all have the same policies” regarding the return of defective products.

    Shall we investigate? Shall we see if this admitted-store-owner is a liar? Assuming you are not already convince, let us proceed.

    To be clear: the issue was NOT whether other stores set time limits on when they want you to return defective products. No, indeed!

    The question is: do other stores share Crappy Tire’s despicable “repair only” policy, which means the poor consumer has zero time to return a defective product, and must instead deal with a warranty claim?

    (This is the notorious policy that attempts to side-step the consumer protection laws of Ontario, BC, and so on. Or, in the words of one owner, “too-bad-so-sad”.)

    Note: do not be distracted by side discussions about change-of-mind returns, returns after the policy time has expired, return in other provinces, etc. Remember: this is the discussion of the “too-bad-so-sad”, zero time policy in those specific provinces.

    Here are some actual links to web sites (rather than a lazy and suspicious copy-and-paste from a web site):

    ---

    Home Depot "Return Policy | Home Depot Canada"

    “Returns with an Original Sales Receipt Within 90 Days of Purchase …Any purchase made by credit card will be refunded to the original credit card (and so on, for various forms of payment).

    No mention of a "repair only" policy, or a “too-bad-so-sad” policy on defective items. It doesn’t work? Bring it back.

    ---

    Rona: "Rona.ca - Cancellation and Return Conditions"

    "You may return merchandise within 30 days following purchase by dropping it off at a RONA store.”

    Also, "if the merchandise was damaged or defective at the time of delivery, or if the merchandise is not what you ordered, RONA inc. will reimburse you both merchandise and shipping costs."

    There is no mention of a flat-out refusal to take back defective items or a “repair only" policy.

    ---

    Lowe's Canada: "Returns and Refunds Policy brought to you by Lowes.com"

    "If you receive an item you are dissatisfied with, you may return it within ninety (90) days to any Lowe's store for a refund or exchange within our current return policy guidelines."

    No mention of a "repair only" policy, or anything like it. It’s defective? Bring it back!

    Home Hardware (with an “e”)

    Frankly, I thought of checking, but I’ll leave that to anyone who might still be deluded into thinking that CT owners can be trusted in these matters.

    ---

    - Did Crappy Time “invent” the devious and illegal (i.e., contrary to Consumer Protection laws) "repair only" policy? Maybe I'm giving them too much credit for creativity, but I don’t see anybody else trying to pull this off. Certainly the "invented" it in the sense that it's not allowed in certain jurisdictions. So, based on all available evidence, I’d have to say “Yes”.

    - Should you shop at Crappy Tire, and pray to God that the item you just picked isn’t one of the defective ones? Absolutely not!

    - Should you automatically cave in to the whims of the greedy store owners, who want you to “shouldered the burden of bad products”, because that's “the cost of [the customer's] education”? ( See posting #9). No!

    - Are some store-owners prone to telling lies, deceiving readers on this site, and generally slinging a lot of B.S.? Just do a little reading, and you'll agree to another “Yes”.

    - Do they squeal like stuck pigs when someone calls them on it? You be the judge.

  5. #25
    Posted by an unregistered user Guest-0276's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    ....silence and then a giant sucking sound. It's CT on it's knees in it's best cheer leader outfit, bobbing up and down infront of Harper and McGuinty for a bailout, ahead of a long line of creditors and long term debt holders.

  6. #26
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Oh DavidLEr you're so smart. I was sure that just making up my own return policies and warranty policies for other retailers would have fooled you and that nobody would have double checked.

    Come on be real. Do a little digging, you might find that policies for product specific (eg. warranty for power equipment) might not be posted on their front page with their returns policy. No i will not hold your hand through the process and post the links.



    and to mrs. unregistered - bankruptcy and bailout? LOL madame you have a wild imagination. In my business experience, increasing profits usually are not an indicator that a company is heading for bankruptcy. I suppose if we were to start closing stores (which has never happened), lose all of the assets connected to having one of Canada's largest real estate holdings companies and private trucking fleets... not to mention our real businesses of general retail, clothing, petroleum and credit cards... perhaps we'd be in trouble.
    Where do you fools come up with such sillyness? So you're a disgruntled customer, we get that. The transition from pissed off customer to world economist or retail analyst who ranks our business strategy and success.... that's a pretty big quantum leap. You must be proud

  7. #27
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    I will admit it: I was wrong.

    I heaped much derision upon CT's "repair only" policy, calling it "despicable", and an attempt to "side-step" consumer protection laws.

    Now that I've done some more research, I must confess my mistake.

    It's actually Crappy Tire's ENTIRE POLICY on defective items that is despicable, and is contrary to the CPA of 2002 (among other legislation).

    DavidLeR apologized for the error.

    The Crappy site "Returns, Refunds & Exchanges | Canadian Tire" has this to say: "If a product is defective, the manufacturer’s warranty will apply".

    Yes: if it is defective, they claim they don't have to take it back. Or, in the words of confessed-store-owner CT Me, "too bad so sad".

    As I posted earlier, some provinces have Consumer Protection legislation that makes it illegal to misrepresent an item on a store shelf as performing in a certain way. If the item doesn't work, the SELLER is responsible for an exchange or refund, and NOT soley the manufacturer.

    Some legistation includes the option to get satisfaction through a your credit card company. See my earlier posting.

    So, what the heck IS this bizzare "Repair Only" policy, if there's already an over-arching policy for any defective item on any shelf in the store (i.e, the customer gets screwed)?

    I believe this is just another name for a "No Return" item. Nothing special.

    Typical "No returns" items are: gift cards, underwear (thank God!), clearance and "as-is" items, ammunition, and customized items. These are usually well-marked.

    So, why did CT invent the term "Repair Only"? Why would they want to confuse customers (and store owners, too, apparently)?

    Why not just call it a "No Return" item? They do it for ammo and underwear!

    I have no idea.

    -----

    As customers, CT's hair-splitting rules for defective vs. change-of-mind returns seem to be completely backwards. If the darn thing doesn't even work, I can't get a refund/exchange; but, if I just randomly change my mind, I can a refund? It seems illogical.

    But if we look at it from CT's point of view, it's perfectly rational.

    If an unwanted item is resellable, they only have to pay an employee to process the refund and put it back on the shelf. Cheap and easy (but it is clearly untrue when CT Me wrote, "Refunds for unused items … don't cost money". Can somebody explain to him/her the difference between an "asset" and an "expense"?).

    Now consider CT's view of a defective product - that's a whole other can of worms.

    The process that stores have to follow to return a defective item to a supplier is probably onerous. As some employees have told us, they need permission from the supplier/manufacturer to return some defective items. I assume the store has to contact someone, get a credit for the item, arrange a pick-up, and so forth. I've heard that, for some items, the store will simply throw the item into the dumpster, rather than try to get the money back for the supplier. Ouch!

    Even CT Me wrote (in posting #9), "For too long retailers have shouldered the burden of bad products".

    (Strangely, CT Me then wrote in posting #20, "Refunds for defective products do not cost the business money". Which is the truth, and which is the lie? I suspect that CT Me got ticked off and carelessly blurted out the truth in his/her anti-customer diatribe in #9. But maybe that was the lie, and posting #20 was the truth? It gets hard to tell after a while.)

    -----

    You might now be asking yourself, "Is the Repair-Only policy still despicable?"

    Yes!

    One problem is, it's often not clear that this is a "no-returns" type of item. You might not find out until AFTER you paid, when it's printed on the receipt. By then it's too late.

    To make things even worse, CT has begun stocking many products that are prone to have defects, right out of the box. Like those crapola Simoniz pressure washers.

    So ….

    Are you still considering buying that sale-priced pressure washer from Crappy Tire?

    Bend over - you're about to get "Simonized".

  8. #28
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    When the website says manufacturers warranty applies, that does not mean you must deal with the manufacturer. It means they set the terms of the warranty. There are tens of thousands of products that are straight defective exchange warranty. You bring in a receipt, and the product ( a toaster, a blender, a skate, a battery charger, a hammer, a paint brush...whatever) we give you another one. Yes that product will end up in the dumpster 9 times out of 10, but we get the money back for it from the vendor. The vendor has no interest in bringing back each item, paying the freight, paying someone to inspect it etc.... we submit the documentation, they credit us back. There's always an assumed failure rate in products, and its likely built into the cost of selling to a retailer. Those warranties are by far the most common and are anywhere from 1 year to 3 year depending on the product. If the customer does not want a replacement on any of the items with that warranty, they can ask for a refund, and MOST stores will grant them the refund.

    Change of mind return as you call it. This is an unused item, in its original packaging with a receipt. Within 90 days, will be refunded. Period. That policy is posted everywhere, and clearly on the back of every receipt. The only exceptions to this rule are motorized goods (pressure washers, generators, atv/dirtbike and some anomalies like tents which customers like to rent.
    As previously requested.... my failure rates are low on Simoniz. 83 units sold in a rolling 52 week period. 3 repairs (2 wands, 1 hose) and one pump failure. All repaired under warranty. Let me guess... you'll claim i'm lying. typical

    You are also attempting interpreting legal terms, which I can assume you are not qualified to do. Although you have disputed the facts, the rules are simple. In every Province, the consumer is protected by legislations, each is called something different in each province. The protection simply says that the seller and or manufacturer must honour the warranty terms of each product. There is absolutely no legislation by any department in any province that states what the warranty terms are, and what the remedy must be. It is 100% up to the seller/manufacturer.
    Your claim as I understand it is that the Government does regulate it. So I ask you this.... your claim is that for all 15,000 sku's i have here, a Government team of people has decided what I can and can't do with the warranty? Ditto for every sku at Walmart, Home Depot etc... hmmm that's simply WRONG.

    Under no circumstances will a credit card company just simply reverse the charge if you are unsatisfied. They may go to bat for you in negotiating with the store directly or head office/customer complaints but they will not just say sure... we'll credit you back.

    Finally, the difference between asset and expense, thanks for the business lesson. Scenario: I sell a $50 dollar extension cord. I collect the money (plus in the cash column) , I remove the asset value (inventory of the cord) the difference between what its worth to me and what I sold it for at retail is called profit. Only fixed costs (expenses) involved such as heat, hydro, etc....) Scenario 2 - customer changes his mind, returns the unused cord. the opposite happens. Cord back into inventory, + value of cord on my asset list. Money goes back to customer, (- $ in the cash column). None of this has anything to do with expenses with the exception of the labour costs involved to handle, restock etc... which are variable costs but fixed in the sense that the employees are already scheduled.


    PS - i've decided to lead you to water on repairs for products. Check out this website... rona.ca
    Rona.ca - Cancellation and Return Conditions
    Rona's authorized repair depot for power products.... Mecanair. Promise, we didn't invent it. Posted right on the front page, in fact just above the stuff you copied and posted for us to see. Conveniently overlooked i suspect.

    DavidLeR, originally you seemed to be playing on a different level then the rest of the foul mouthed clowns on here. Now you're slowly joining their ranks, in constantly digging up information that suits your opinions. Unfortunately it's usually incomplete information. You do not understand how we operate (as noted in your assumptions of returns and costs) and you do not know the legislations of provinces and how they are involved in warranty processes. You have snippets of information that you dig up by googling. We have spent years and invested tens of thousands if not millions in retail marketing, research, policies, procedures, warranties etc.... WE KNOW THE RULES! YOU DON'T

  9. #29
    Posted by an unregistered user Guest-0276's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Damn. Who'd a thunk that a cockaroach can survive for weeks without a head.

    See, I told you ct me was a total dumb fuck.

  10. #30
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Damn. Who'd a thunk that a cockaroach can survive for weeks without a head.

    See, I told you ct me was a total dumb fuck.
    When I leave today at 4:00... i'll still be earning money for another 5 hours while i'm at home. If I choose not to come in tomorrow, there's still money going into the bank. Doesn't sound too dumb to me.

    So you may continue to slave away Monday to Friday on an hourly wage or salary, earn exactly the same week in week out and grab a 2% cost of living raise, slowly building towards retirement.

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