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Thread: Sale of Goods Act

  1. #71
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    In an earlier post I mentioned Professor Iain Ramsay, now of the University of Kent, but previously law professor at York’s Osgoode Hall Law School:
    Professor Ramsay wrote a letter to the editor to the Toronto Star regarding Retailer liable to the purchaser for a defective product:
    In response to a Star article on extended warranties, Professor Ramsay wrote:

    “Under the Ontario Sale of Goods Act, a retailer is legally liable to a purchaser for a defective product … Depending on the particular facts, a consumer may have a right to reject (return) the goods for a refund … Under section 9 (3) of the Consumer Protection Act 2002 these obligations of the retailer may not be excluded or waived when selling to a consumer. Any attempt to do so is of no legal effect.”

    This is yet another example of a reputable source stating that retailers do not always get to choose what the remedy will be (i.e., “repair only”), and that the laws give consumers the right to a refund for a defective product (at least in some cases).

    This will be added to the long list of reputable sources saying that consumers have the right to return defective products for a refund.

    Consumers are urged to contact their consumer ministry to find out how the laws can be applied in their particular case.

    -----

    #15 - Professor Iain Ramsay:

    "Professor Iain Ramsay on Retailers' Legal Responsibility to Purchasers"

  2. #72
    Posted by an unregistered user Angry CT Guy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidLeR View Post
    In an earlier post I mentioned Professor Iain Ramsay, now of the University of Kent, but previously law professor at York’s Osgoode Hall Law School:
    Professor Ramsay wrote a letter to the editor to the Toronto Star regarding Retailer liable to the purchaser for a defective product:
    In response to a Star article on extended warranties, Professor Ramsay wrote:

    “Under the Ontario Sale of Goods Act, a retailer is legally liable to a purchaser for a defective product … Depending on the particular facts, a consumer may have a right to reject (return) the goods for a refund … Under section 9 (3) of the Consumer Protection Act 2002 these obligations of the retailer may not be excluded or waived when selling to a consumer. Any attempt to do so is of no legal effect.”

    This is yet another example of a reputable source stating that retailers do not always get to choose what the remedy will be (i.e., “repair only”), and that the laws give consumers the right to a refund for a defective product (at least in some cases).

    This will be added to the long list of reputable sources saying that consumers have the right to return defective products for a refund.

    Consumers are urged to contact their consumer ministry to find out how the laws can be applied in their particular case.

    -----

    #15 - Professor Iain Ramsay:

    "Professor Iain Ramsay on Retailers' Legal Responsibility to Purchasers"
    Depending on the particular facts, a consumer may have a right to reject (return) the goods for a refund or keep the goods and recover damages which would be equivalent to the cost of a repair.

    Typical legal jumbo which can be interpreted in a number of ways...."depending on the particular facts".....which leaves open a thousand scenarios.....then there is "a consumer MAY have a right"....not an unequivocal absolute right, but MAY....in other words....in his opinion.
    Then of course, there is the whole mention of REPAIR.....which kind of wrecks your theory once again.
    I'm kind of surprised you posted something that destroys your theory when I was hoping that you would find something that says CTC's or ANY other retailer has an illegal policy....How's that search going? Any luck on that yet? LOL

  3. #73
    Posted by an unregistered user Guest-0477's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidLeR View Post
    “Under the Ontario Sale of Goods Act, a retailer is legally liable to a purchaser for a defective product … Depending on the particular facts, a consumer may have a right to reject (return) the goods for a refund … Under section 9 (3) of the Consumer Protection Act 2002 these obligations of the retailer may not be excluded or waived when selling to a consumer. Any attempt to do so is of no legal effect.”
    seems to me we are fine tuning our understanding of the consumer protection laws

    lots of incorrect info has been spread on this site by store representatives (fake or not)

    but here weve got an ontario law professor telling us consumers can get a refund - pretty persuasive

    so its beyond doubt that there are cases where the customer is entitled to a refund for a defective product

    regardless of the policy of crappy tire.

    but it sounds like there may be some exceptions where these laws dont apply

    probably as-is or clearance items when it’s clearly marked that way

    also maybe for items where there are health laws and it cannot be re-sold

    and maybe theres a copyright law for digital media that says it cannot be returned if it is defective

    other than that nobody has come up with any situations where the laws that professor ramsay quoted would not apply

    so, this is good information for consumers

    but this was already settled with the first 14 online references - LOL!

    might be interesting to look for more on rejecting and on iain ramsay

    for us consumers the bottom line is:

    - dont shop at canadian tire

    - if you made a mistake and bought a defective product from ct - maybe a Simoniz pressure washer LOL! - call the ministry to find out if you can get a refund – or at least an exchange

  4. #74
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    I'm betting some CT rep will come back and say how customers don't have the rights they actually do have ...

  5. #75
    Posted by an unregistered user Angry CT Guy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    seems to me we are fine tuning our understanding of the consumer protection laws

    lots of incorrect info has been spread on this site by store representatives (fake or not)

    but here weve got an ontario law professor telling us consumers can get a refund - pretty persuasive

    so its beyond doubt that there are cases where the customer is entitled to a refund for a defective product

    regardless of the policy of crappy tire.

    but it sounds like there may be some exceptions where these laws dont apply

    probably as-is or clearance items when it’s clearly marked that way

    also maybe for items where there are health laws and it cannot be re-sold

    and maybe theres a copyright law for digital media that says it cannot be returned if it is defective

    other than that nobody has come up with any situations where the laws that professor ramsay quoted would not apply

    so, this is good information for consumers

    but this was already settled with the first 14 online references - LOL!

    might be interesting to look for more on rejecting and on iain ramsay

    for us consumers the bottom line is:

    - dont shop at canadian tire

    - if you made a mistake and bought a defective product from ct - maybe a Simoniz pressure washer LOL! - call the ministry to find out if you can get a refund – or at least an exchange
    Lots of maybes and might in your opinion. I particularly like how you contradict yourself several times. Boy are you dumb.
    Keep on posting....it's good for a laugh.

  6. #76
    Posted by an unregistered user Angry CT Guy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidLeR View Post
    I'm betting some CT rep will come back and say how customers don't have the rights they actually do have ...

    And I bet some faker advocate will try and tell people that they have rights that they don't have.
    Funny how you can't find even one example of CTC or ANY other retailer being accused of denying a customer's "rights" when it comes to their return policies. Funny how that is.

  7. #77

    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    For consumers interested in learning more about consumer law, I found the following .doc file for download from Prof. Ramsay's YorkU page:

    http://osgoode.yorku.ca/QuickPlace/iainramsay/Main.nsf/$defaultview/83FBC6557DDA674A8525706B006D93E8/$File/chapter4.doc?OpenElement.

    It looks like an extract of a larger book, and is 128 pages long, covering a lot of topics.

  8. #78
    Posted by an unregistered user Angry CT Guy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    For consumers interested in learning more about consumer law, I found the following .doc file for download from Prof. Ramsay's YorkU page:

    http://osgoode.yorku.ca/QuickPlace/iainramsay/Main.nsf/$defaultview/83FBC6557DDA674A8525706B006D93E8/$File/chapter4.doc?OpenElement.

    It looks like an extract of a larger book, and is 128 pages long, covering a lot of topics.

    Nice opinion. You will find other lawyers that market a similar opinion if you look hard enough...doesn't mean they are correct. And given that 5 years have passed since Prof. Ramsay's opinion, I'm curious why no lawyer, law professor, or REAL consumer advocate has said that CTC or any other retailer has a policy in contravention of either CPA or SOGA. Don't you wonder the same thing?

  9. #79

    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidLeR View Post
    I'm betting some CT rep will come back and say how customers don't have the rights they actually do have ...
    Seems to have come to pass as predicted ...

  10. #80
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Links to an “Industry Canada” page with incomplete information has been used in the past as evidence that refunds (or even exchanges) are never required by any retailer.

    However, an Industry Canada link has recently been provided that says returns may be required in some provinces/territories for defective products:

    #16 – Industry Canada

    Refund and Exchange - Entire Collection | Canadian Consumer Handbook

    Since this is a Canada-wide site, and each province/territory has specific rules, the Industry Canada site does get into detailes, but it does say:

    “While no legal obligation exists for businesses to accept returned items unless they are defective, retailers and other businesses generally agree that offering refunds or exchanges is a critical part of developing and maintaining good customer relations.”

    Note that repairs aren't even mentioned.

    The links to the other 15 reputable sources can be found here:

    Sale of Goods Act

    and here:

    Sale of Goods Act

    A wise consumer would, of course, seek a balanced view of these issues, and should feel free to consult the competing links that CT representative have supplied:

    • A BBB web site quoting a law that was rescinded in 2005.
    • Links to various retailers’ sites quoting restrictions on returns of defective digital media, ink cartidges, etc.
    Yes, consumers: be sure to weigh all relevant evidence.

    Plus, there is no need to rely on any opinions posted here, or even on the written opinions by the quoted experts (i.e., law students and professors, consumer law lawyers, etc.).

    If you have a specific issue, don’t hesitate to contact your Consumer’s Ministry.

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