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Thread: Sale of Goods Act

  1. #1
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Sale of Goods Act

    Has anybody heard of this before?

    I came across this on Ellen Roseman's "On Your Side" blog (here: Your right to a refund, credit or exchange | Ellen Roseman).

    Apparently, "the Sale of Goods Act says that merchandise must be fit for the intended purpose".

    Basically, if you buy something, then find out that it doesn't work right, you are entitled to a refund, regardless of their "policy" about returns. They shouldn't have sold it to you in the first place.

    I did a little more digging, and found the act here: Ontario - Sale of Goods Act : http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90s01_e.htm.

    It says (in part), "there is an implied condition that the goods will be of merchantable quality".

    Regarding their policies: "An express warranty or condition does not negative a warranty or condition implied by this Act".

    Plus, it's not just a case of "Sorry, we aren't responsible 'cause we aren't the manufacturer". The Act says, "whether the seller is the manufacturer or not".

    Has anyone had experience with this?

    It could be useful in dealing with Crappy Tire, who seem to be refusing returns, and trying to get out of taking back defective merchandise.

  2. #2
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Canada’s Office of Consumer Affairs - Common consumer questions

    Trumped by the information in the link provided above.
    Here's a copy and paste of the very first set of paragraphs.... this is directly from industry canada

    Returns and Refunds
    Don't count on always being able to return a product you've bought, whether it's from a store or the Internet. There is no law that says all sellers must take back an item. It may not matter that you don't like it, decided you can't afford it or found it cheaper somewhere else.

    Every seller has a different return policy. Find out what the seller's policy is before you buy. The return policy is often stated on the back of the receipt and/or posted near the cash register; if not, get it in writing on the receipt. Note that these policies may change during promotions and for items that are on sale or are deemed to be "party wear."

    Some stores will allow you to bring goods back but will set conditions. Examples are:

    •No returns or exchanges allowed on personal goods such as pierced earrings or swimsuits
    •Products may be exchanged but not returned for cash back
    •Goods must be returned within a set number of days
    •A credit note will be given instead of money returned
    •Goods must be unused and still have all tags, packaging, etc
    •You must have your sales receipt (although this is almost always required, some stores will refund or exchange without a receipt)
    •A restocking fee may be charged

  3. #3
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Trumped by the information in the link provided above.
    Here's a copy and paste of the very first set of paragraphs.... this is directly from industry canada
    I'm aware of the rules you are quoting, but I don't think we are talking about the same circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    There is no law that says all sellers must take back an item.
    Well, I think there now is, and it's part of the Consumer Protection Act of 2002: the Sale Of Goods Act.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    It may not matter that you don't like it, decided you can't afford it or found it cheaper somewhere else.
    Excellent point.

    And I agree, just because a customer changes their mind doesn't mean they can return something. That's been the case all along, and hasn't changed.

    But I'm talking about the specific case of an item that is defective right out of the box, and fails to do what it is supposed to do. That's when the SOGA section I quoted comes in.

    This could be a real shake-up for CT.

  4. #4
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    The link I posted describes an Ontario-specific law. It sounds like there are other, similar laws in other parts of Canada.

    I see now that your link is for an overall Canada-wide law.

    Does one "trump" the other? Actually, the Canada site at your link mentions the provincial laws, but under the "warranty" section.

    And, it sounds like the provincial laws trump the Ontario law (at least for defective items):

    "Some provincial and territorial legislation states that implied warranties apply to every sales contract ... The implied warranty normally states that the goods be of "merchantable quality" and fit for the purpose for which they were sold ...
    For information on warranties, check with your provincial or territorial consumer affairs office for the provisions in your jurisdiction."

  5. #5
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    http://www.servicealberta.gov.ab.ca/...tisfaction.pdf
    Alberta - note document updated May 2010
    still the same rules - refunds, exchanges etc... are NOT law

    Manitoba
    http://www.gov.mb.ca/fs/cca/cpo/pdf/...Guarantees.pdf

    Nova Scotia
    Service Nova Scotia - Consumer Information - Guarantees and Warranties

    all the same wording. it does say retailers are bound to stand behind the products they sell, which may include repair by authorized agents.

    There is no Canadian Law that states a consumer has the right to endless exchanges if the product fails. All suppliers of goods have the absolute right to select warranties as exchange or repair, the length, the terms etc...
    Some cover parts only no labour. some all inclusive. some have varying terms for different parts of the product.

  6. #6
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Ct Me View Post
    http://www.servicealberta.gov.ab.ca/...tisfaction.pdf
    it does say retailers are bound to stand behind the products they sell ...
    Awesome!

    So much for the "we just stock the shelves" theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ct Me View Post
    ...which may include repair by authorized agents.
    "May"?

    Well, I'm still researching Ontario, but the BC branch of the Canadian Bar Association (see "http://www.cba.org/bc/public_media/credit/257.aspx") says:

    "What should you do if you discover the goods you’ve bought are defective?
    You should immediately return the goods to the seller. Request an exchange for replacement goods. If a replacement product isn’t available, ask for a refund."

    So, at least in BC, it's "bye-bye, repair-only" warranty!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ct Me View Post
    There is no Canadian Law that states a consumer has the right to endless exchanges if the product fails.
    Agreed: no such national law.

    However, there are provincial and territorial laws that say the consumer is entitled to an exchange or a refund. And, they don't give a maximum number of "kicks at the cat". (i.e, "Sorry, Mr. consumer, but we only have to give you 6 replacements, and then you are on your own").

    Quote Originally Posted by Ct Me View Post
    All suppliers of goods have the absolute right to select warranties as exchange or repair, the length, the terms etc...
    Really? Where do you see that? Is it in one of the links you provided? 'Cause I sure don't see it. Please advise.

    Nope, I only see two options listed:

    1) Replacement (with one that actually works, of course)
    2) Refund.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ct Me View Post
    Some cover parts only no labour. some all inclusive. some have varying terms for different parts of the product.
    Well, maybe some of the "express" terms (in the written warranty) work this way.

    But, this is the "implied" warranty, which can't be negated by the express one.

    And no place in there did I see "only covers labour" etc.

    Yes, siree. "There’s an implied condition that the product won’t have any defects if you buy it by description from someone who sells that type of goods."

    Sounds like that man who unwisely bought a Simonize washer deserves either a) a working Simonize pressure washer (without having to deal with the manufacturer) or b) a full refund ....

    .... "plus compensation for any extra expenses caused by the defective goods".

    Bonus!

    I sure hope that unfortunate man lives in BC. Or, that we can dig up the details for his province of residence.

  7. #7
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    You are interpreting the provincial laws by your own terms.

    No Provincial or Federal law dictates what exchange, refund or warranty can be/will be offered on a product. Retailers, wholesalers and manufacturers have 100% of the right to select their warranty terms. The only Laws related to the warranties are that if a consumer requests the written information, they are entitled to receive it.
    I have always had a policy at my stores that a number of product lines get the printed handout right at the register when it's sold, to avoid any confusion. My team takes the warranty terms for bbq's, bicycles, mowers, pressure washers, generators and quads/atv's and dirt bikes and hands them to the customers at time of purchase. A warning pops up on the register screen to remind the cashiers to do so for the product lines.

    Your quote from BC.... "what if i get a defective product............ reply: ask for a refund or exchange" partially correct but only a half truth. If the warranty policy for that product is 1 year, lets say a toaster, ice scraper or a hockey glove and is termed for a refund or exchange, it is granted (provided proof of purchase). If it as an example is a lawn mower or the (beat a dead horse) pressure washer then the warranty is to have it sent out for repair, then we have the absolute right NOT to refund the money but to send him to an authorized repair center. The repair warranties are most common on motorized goods eg. mowers, chainsaws, pressure washers, generators, dirt bikes, atv's.

    Consumers absolutely have rights. They do have the right to a product to be as described eg. horsepower, size etc.... and they do have the right to know the warranty terms and to have them adhered to. Consumers DO NOT have the RIGHT to demand a refund or exchange on any product with or without proof of purchase. They do NOT have the RIGHT to forego a repair on a product with a repair warranty and get their money back. There are courtesy options and customer satisfaction options we use in extreme circumstances, but none of them are law.

  8. #8
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    Hey, "CT Me".

    (I see you are back to typing your name with a capital "C". It sure would make your life easier if you took the time to register on this site).

    We seem to be in a loop:

    1) I point out a section of the Act, complete with links.
    2) You reply with basically, "no, it's not", but don't provide any evidence, links, etc.

    This surprises me, because you've always been a big advocate of "true facts" and evidence.

    But, as soon as you start losing the argument, you retreat to, "yes-it-is/no-it's-not".

    Quote Originally Posted by CT Me View Post
    You are interpreting the provincial laws by your own terms.
    Um, no, I'm trying to interpret the laws correctly.

    You, on the other hand, seem to be trying to ignore the Consumer Protecton laws of Canada, and to re-write them to suit your own self-interests (i.e. to increase that bank balance you bragged about, at the expense of consumers).

    Quote Originally Posted by CT Me View Post
    No Provincial or Federal law dictates what exchange, refund or warranty can be/will be offered on a product.
    Yes, they can. And do!

    Geez, you posted some of the links yourself, to consumer legislation that covers warranties!

    Have you even read them???

    Ok, maybe there's a subtle wording issue here: they can't dictate what "will be offered" (by the retailer). But they can (and do) dictate what the consumer is entitled to.

    Quote Originally Posted by CT Me View Post
    Retailers, wholesalers and manufacturers have 100% of the right to select their warranty terms.
    Well, no they don't. There are the "implied" terms that can't be taken away. See my links.

    Quote Originally Posted by CT Me View Post
    The only Laws related to the warranties are that if a consumer requests the written information, they are entitled to receive it.
    No, they aren't the only ones.

    See my links!

    Quote Originally Posted by CT Me View Post
    Your quote from BC.... "what if i get a defective product............ reply: ask for a refund or exchange" partially correct but only a half truth.
    Please provide some links to some laws or legal interpretations that elaborate on this other half that you claim exists. I sure didn't see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by CT Me View Post
    If it is a ... pressure washer then the warranty is to have it sent out for repair, then we have the absolute right NOT to refund the money but to send him to an authorized repair center.
    No, according to the sites I provided, the customer has the absolute right to a refund or exchange.

    Again, I've provided evidence; please do the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by CT Me View Post
    The repair warranties are most common on motorized goods eg. mowers, chainsaws, pressure washers, generators, dirt bikes, atv's.
    And, appear to be illegal, in some provinces at least. Please provide some evidence!

    Quote Originally Posted by CT Me View Post
    Consumers DO NOT have the RIGHT to demand a refund or exchange on any product with or without proof of purchase.
    Well, now you are resorting to SHOUTING with UPPER CASE!

    And about something I NEVER WROTE!

    The whole "proof of purchase" thing - where the heck did that come from?

    Try to stay focused, ok?

    Quote Originally Posted by CT Me View Post
    They do NOT have the RIGHT to forego a repair on a product with a repair warranty and get their money back.
    Yes, they do!

    Quote Originally Posted by CT Me View Post
    There are courtesy options and customer satisfaction options we use in extreme circumstances,
    No, they're not!

    Quote Originally Posted by CT Me View Post
    but none of them are law.
    Yes, they are!

    (At least in some provinces).

    ---

    Well, that was a fascinating exchange.

    I now look forward to either:

    1) Fact-based evidence to support your claims (and refute mine), or;

    2) An admission that you are wrong, and that the consumer laws I've lead you to (kicking and screaming all the way) are correct.

    But please: no more "no-it's-not" statements without any back-up. OK?

  9. #9
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    I didn't make up the laws it's all there provided by the FACTS of the LINKS I PROVIDED. Accordingly Canadian Tire is WELL WITHIN THE LAW of refunds and respecting consumer protection. Our team of lawyers make sure of that. I doubt that you can be that sure of consumer laws. So if a few customers are too lazy to use the warranty supplied with those purchases that are defective then too bad so sad. This the new reality of retail and it's working. We have WRITTEN policies all over the store, in the front, in the back, at the cash register on your way out. If customers choose not to read it and still want to buy those products from us then they can't say they didn't know. It may take a bad product or two to educate them to read the fine print but it's the cost of their education. If we were that bad then we wouldn't be one of the greatest retailers in Canada and adding new stores every year. For too long retailers have shouldered the burden of bad products as your link to Ellenroseman have indicated. Since you have offered no more proof other than talk around issues then I consider this issue closed.

  10. #10
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: Sale of Goods Act

    This afternoon, I was on the ‘phone with the Ontario Ministry of Consumer Services.

    If you have been caught in one of these “repair only” traps, their number is:

    1-800-889-9768 (just press 0 to get the operator, and not listen to all 5 options).

    They confirmed that the Ontario Consumer Protection Act and the Sale of Goods Act of 2002 apply to defective items, and that the "seller" (i.e., Canadian Tire) is obligated to provide either a working replacement, or a full refund.

    See this link to the act: "Consumer Protection Act, 2002, S.O. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A" for specific wording.

    Selling a defective item is covered under Part III, “Unfair Practices”. Specifically, it is a misrepresentation, because the store represents that the products have “performance characteristics “ and “benefits or qualities” that they do not have (section 14).

    Section 18 states, “Any agreement, whether written, oral or implied, entered into by a consumer after or while a person has engaged in an unfair practice may be rescinded by the consumer and the consumer is entitled to any remedy that is available in law, including damages”.

    Oh, and this idea that, “The store gets to decide the return policy”? Not true: “Nothing in this Act shall be interpreted to limit any right or remedy that a consumer may have in law” (Part II, Section 6).

    So, it doesn't matter what wording their lawyers told them to put on their doors, walls, print on receipts, or post on their web pages.

    No, Canadian Tire does not get to write their own laws for the Province of Ontario, nor for the country of Canada.

    So, how do you get a replacement or your money back? (Part IX):

    1 – Notify the store, preferably in writing, that you are exercising your rights under the CPA of 2002, based on misrepresentation.
    2 – Give details of the defect, and your attempts to get a replacement or refund.

    At that point, the seller (Canadian Tire) is obligated to “refund to the consumer any payment made”.

    The really fun part? You have one, full calendar year to cancel the “arrangement” (i.e., the purchase). Not 7 days. Not 15 days. Not 30 days. A full 365 days.

    Also, if the seller refuses a refund, you can go to your credit card company, and ask for a charge-back (see Section 5). Better to do this as soon as CT refuses your lawful request for a refund, though.

    If all this doesn’t get you your money back, you can always start an “action”, probably in Small Claims court where you can represent yourself.

    Finally, in Part XI, it says,

    “Individuals violating certain sections of the act are liable to a fine of up to $50,000 or imprisonment of up to two years less one day. A corporation can be fined up to $250,000.”

    I hope CT-Me’s account is as heavily padded as they claim.

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