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Thread: "Repair Only Warranty" - No Refund, No Exchange

  1. #11
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: "Repair Only Warranty" - No Refund, No Exchange

    I don't pretend to be an expert in the retail sector (or in law or statistics, either, by the way). In fact I've never worked in retail at all. I have, however, been a consumer for many years, and know how a good store operates, and what makes a good return policy, from the customer's point of view.

    The retailer's perspective is not as familiar to me as it is to the self-appointed CT Representatives who post so vociferously on this site (apparently, a few summers on the Returns Desk makes one a legal expert). So, I've recently been trying to see things from the store's point of view.

    Based on things I've read (here and elsewhere), it appears that retailers make arrangements with manufacturers regarding things such as refunds, exchanges and warranties. As you know, I am especially interested in refunds for defective goods.

    Apparently, CT has entered into agreements with some manufacturers such that the manufacturer is not obligated to provide a refund to the store if an item turns out to be defective.

    With this in mind, I can see how a store would be reluctant to provide a refund to a customer who was unlucky enough to pick a package containing a defective item. If the store provided a refund to the customer, the manufacturer would refuse to provide a matching refund to the store, leaving the store 'holding the bag' for the defective item.

    This raises the question of why the store would be so foolish as to enter into such an arrangement in the first place. Is it because the goods can be purchased at a lower price under these terms? If so it is plainly greed on the part of the store. Does the store simply hope to side-step the expense of processing a refund? It seems a small price to pay to retain customers.

    Regardless of any reasons CT may have had in making such a fool-hardy arrangement with a manufacturer, there should be some ways for the stores to avoid being stuck with defective items, so that they are less reluctant to provide reasonable refunds to customers who deserve one.

    For instance, the store could simply refuse to stock the items that fall under these ridiculous refund arrangements, since they know they will be faced with angry consumers demanding a refund.

    Another idea might be to renegotiate the arrangement with the manufacturer, so that the manufacturer provides refunds to the store (or at least exchanges) for out-of-the-box defects.

    Any similar measures would protect the store from having to 'eat' the cost of a manufacturing defect.

    In any case, the only option that should not be pursued, is to demand that the innocent customer bear the full cost and inconvenience of trying to obtain a refund (or even an exchange or repair), simply because of the absurd arrangement that CT voluntarily entered into with a manufacturer.

    Why should the customer have to pay for CT's dumb mistakes?

    Luckily, consumers (at least in Ontario, and presumably other provinces), have finally been supported by Consumer Protection legislation that defines the sale of a defective item as a misrepresentation on the part of the retailer, and allows the customer to cancel the 'consumer agreement' (i.e., purchase transaction) and obtain a refund from the retailer.

    Now, it is up to CT to figure out how to get their money back from the manufacturer.

    Whatever, as long as they leave the innocent customer out of it.

  2. #12
    Posted by an unregistered user Angry CT Guy's Avatar
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    Re: "Repair Only Warranty" - No Refund, No Exchange

    Finally? The consumer protection act has been around for many years, with the latest version updated in 2002. This is quite the about face from DavidLer.....apparently CT and other retailers are no longer doing something illegal....now they are just stupid. The "arrangements" entered into with manufacturers is at the beset of the manufacturer. After a prolonged period during the late 90's and last decade, manufacturers tested return items for actual defects in manufacturing....the result was that most defective items were not defective at all.....this is from such brand names as pioneer, Sony, moffat, moen, Briggs and Stratton, Tecumseh, MTD, Minn Kota, JVC, Poulan, Husquvarna, and so on and so on. People come to expect higher quality for well known brand names, and as such these companies have stringent testing, and quality control processes. They don't have a lot of defects....they do have a number of people that didn't quite follow the proper instructions, returning items as defective.....they changed their process with vendors to keep unnecessary costs down....smart businesses do that.

    You are correct, some retailers (Walmart) won't deal with companies that dictate terms.....it's well documented what the Walmart effect does to a manufacturer. But there are customers that want a brand name item, they trust the quality, plus there is recourse for a defective item....it's just not right on the spot like many other items.

    Just to drive home the fact that DavidLer is misinformed, or under informed.....the customer NEVER bears the cost of obtaining a refund or repair or exchange. If an item is defective, the store pays those costs.

    I like the flip flop, but your credibility sure has taken a beating.

  3. #13
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: "Repair Only Warranty" - No Refund, No Exchange

    DavidLER - glad to see you are seeing things from all sides. there are several things to keep in mind in relation to your post. the store does not have the option to sell or not sell the items and the store does not enter into an agreement with the manufacturer. the corporation does this on behalf of all stores. the store has to stock the items that are advertised.

    with a gas powered warranty repair item nobody gets left holding the bag. it gets repaired, customer gets it back. they are inconvenienced for a few days, especially if its prime season. same deal if its home depot item or wherever. the repair is the warranty.
    no different then an automobile repair... it goes in, see you in a day or two, its repaired, you found another way to work or school or what have you.

  4. #14
    Posted by an unregistered user Guest-0276's Avatar
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    Re: "Repair Only Warranty" - No Refund, No Exchange

    Quote Originally Posted by lawguy View Post
    facts and figures please, anecdotal evidence need not apply
    Funny that's all you've given plus your weak opinions. Are you that stupid of a woman?

    Specific cases with 'CPA', both you and unregistered requested as you were so sure none existed were, given only to be dismissed because you were proven to be wrong. You don't bring proof to the table. All you've done is run your mouth and give anecdotal evidence, and stupid opinions yourself. No back up, no common sense, You're just low paygrade clerk with a scanner and a mop.

  5. #15
    Posted by an unregistered user Guest-0276's Avatar
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    Re: "Repair Only Warranty" - No Refund, No Exchange

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    The "arrangements" entered into with manufacturers is at the beset of the manufacturer. After a prolonged period during the late 90's and last decade, manufacturers tested return items for actual defects in manufacturing....the result was that most defective items were not defective at all......
    Really? Where's your proof ? More bullshit from you? Since you're so big on asking others for statistics from qualified sources, prove it! What's the number of tested 'defective items' that would warrant such an onerous burden on consumers? you can't even get the list because it doesn't exist. Or get the contract you're harping on. This is just another underhanded money grab for CT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    (Walmart) won't deal with companies that dictate terms.....it's well documented what the Walmart effect does to a manufacturer. But there are customers that want a brand name item, they trust the quality, plus there is recourse for a defective item....it's just not right on the spot like many other items.
    Wow, on the spot recourse for a defective item...what isn't there to get. Maybe that's one of the reasons why they pulled in over $400 Billion

    Walmartstores.com: Investor Relations - Investors

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    ....the customer NEVER bears the cost of obtaining a refund or repair or exchange.
    Where have I heard this lie before? So people are happily keeping their busted siminoz washers, paying outrageous restocking fee's and why you have a database for tracking 'excess' returns and denying those people. So the customer never ever ever bears the cost of a refund eh....Big fucking lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I like the flip flop, but your credibility sure has taken a beating.
    You, the CT store owner or what ever you are lawguy have no credibility. Your facts are so easy to disprove.

  6. #16
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: "Repair Only Warranty" - No Refund, No Exchange

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidLeR View Post
    Luckily, consumers (at least in Ontario, and presumably other provinces), have finally been supported by Consumer Protection legislation that defines the sale of a defective item as a misrepresentation on the part of the retailer, and allows the customer to cancel the 'consumer agreement' (i.e., purchase transaction) and obtain a refund from the retailer.
    Just to avoid any confusion: it is the latest version of the CPA (which only came into force in 2005) that makes it illegal for Canadian Tire to refuse a refund for a defective item.

    And, it is only my interpretation that it is also dumb for CT to adopt an illegal, anti-customer policy. I'm sure they did the math, and decided it was more profitable to cheat their customers than to deal with them honestly, as the CT Rep's posting here continue to prove.

  7. #17
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: "Repair Only Warranty" - No Refund, No Exchange

    wrong again LER

    it makes it illegal for a company not to "make good" (your terms as quoted from a previous post) on the terms of the purchase (repair, warranty or replace) .

    no law stipulates how the seller should make good.

  8. #18
    Active Member DavidLeR's Avatar
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    Re: "Repair Only Warranty" - No Refund, No Exchange

    A little more research on the BBB site.

    It only mentions the BPA, which is now obsolete:

    CanLII - Business Practices Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. B.18

    Superceded by the CPA, enacted in 2002, in force in 2005.

    Maybe back in the '90's no refund was required.

    I'm glad the CPA was updated!

  9. #19
    Smart Consumer
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    Re: "Repair Only Warranty" - No Refund, No Exchange

    Does anyone else find it suspicious that both lawguy and unregistered claim to have as much knowledge of the inner workings of a Canadian Tire franchise as confessed store rep's CT_MANAGER and CT ME?

    Yet they both claim over and over that they are merely trying to "help" and to "inform".

    Plus the fact that they all tell the same lies, over and over again.

    Including lies about what others have written, as if that will make those with pro-consumer tips less credible.

    Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

  10. #20
    Posted by an unregistered user CT Me / Lawguy's Avatar
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    Re: "Repair Only Warranty" - No Refund, No Exchange

    actually i know sweet fuck all about the inner workings of a canadian tire store. i know plenty about the inner workings of the legal system specifically as it relates to consumer law and the rights of consumers and sellers.

    i haven't read everything from ct-me postings but he seems to understand the business and the financial aspects quite well and he claims to be an owner, i tend to believe him. ct-manager sounds like well, a ct manager. haven't seen him involved in any of the financial stuff related to the business, but seems to know quite a bit about the stuff on the floor

    just my two cents

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