CT Challenger

New member
This is a recurring topic, and right now there are two different threads with two similar discussions.

Consumers understand that simply processing a refund will cost the store some resources, but people who say they represent CT deny that this is significant.

Other consumers say it's only logical that giving a refund for a "repair only" or "exchange only" product will cause a loss for either the store or the corporation, since the manufacturer won't cover the cost.

Some people who claim to represent CT say giving a refund for any defective item never costs Canadian Tire anything - not the store, and not the corporation. Other rep's say there can be a cost to the store.

The main reason this matters to customers, is it makes sense of the store's reluctance to give refunds for genuinely defective "repair only" or "exchange only" products.

The claims by the store of deeply held environmental concerns, or a strong sense of "right and wrong" simply ring false.

With that background, here is a link to what's going on in the Simoniz Scam thread, with some quotations:

https://www.canadiantiresucks.net/personal-stories/68-simoniz-scam-11.html#post4236

"Based on the "code 12" comment from CT_Manager the answer is both are correct. If the store uses said option, they may end up eating the cost. There are other options available that perhaps this Manager is not aware of that will alleviate that cost from the store if a legitimate customer concern arises that falls outside of any warranty, repair, return etc... policy. I do not know who that manager is, or which store he is from. He has defended and represented CT quite well in some of the postings I have read. As a Dealer I know that I have worked very closely with my Management team so that they understand every option available to them to solve a legitimate customer complaint with the least grief and aside from processing costs, which is simply the cost of having staff and doing business, we do not bear the cost. I also trust their judgement that they will not abuse it because at the end of the day someone bears the cost, so it's not right just to ouster the cost onto someone else or some other company."​

And here's some of what's being said in the "Canadian Tire Doesn't Honor Their Return Policy" thread:

https://www.canadiantiresucks.net/g...nt-honor-their-return-policy-10.html#post4239

"I'm sorry but that is not entirely true. That are many cases in which the store is not credited unless certain steps are taken by the store in regards to defective items. For example, many faucets are required by the manufacture to have a "RMA" number when returning. Before that faucet can be returned, the store must contact the manufacture for authorization number ... If the store does not contact for Authorization first, that store is *NOT* credited for the return."​
 

CT Challenger

New member
Obviously, if CT stores didn't allow returns on anything the stores sold, then they would not need to pay as many people to work at the customer service desk, and wouldn't need staff to put sealed items back on the shelves, destroy or return to the manufacturer any defective items, etc. So, yes, there is a staffing cost, but it doesn't appear to be large, so this incremental cost shouldn't be a big point for further debate.

The real question is, after a customer is given a refund for a defective item, who covers the cost of the item? The store, the corporation, or the manufacturer?

If the manufacturer agreed to credit the store for the wholesale cost of the item (maybe first needing a RMA number), then the store is covered. So, the manufacturer lost out (seems fair - the shipped a defective product).

But what happens if the manufacturer will not credit the store? Maybe the store was too quick to give the refund, and the manufacturerer disputes it. Or, there was no RMA number, and now the manufacturer won't pay. Or, maybe it's a "repair only" product, and the manufacturer said from the beginning that they would not credit the store for a defective item - i.e. they would only cover the cost of a repair, not a refund. In these cases, wouldn't the store lose the wholesale value of the item?

Some have posted here saying that there's some little known method for a store to request a credit from the CT corporation. If that's true, but nobody at the store does the rights steps, then it looks like the store still loses.

Even if the store does the right steps and is credited by the Corporation, then it's just CTC that is now out the money. There hasn't been a method described where the corporation gets money from the manufacturer.

The same thing goes for "no warranty" items. If the manufacturer said they wouldn't cover repairs, exchanges or refunds, then the store would have no way to get that money back if they gave the customer a refund.

So, basically we have several senarios where a store loses money by giving a customer a refund, and so they have a financial incentive to refuse a refund, even if the item is genuinely defective.
 

Guest-0491

Posted by an unregistered user
Obviously, if CT stores didn't allow returns on anything the stores sold, then they would not need to pay as many people to work at the customer service desk, and wouldn't need staff to put sealed items back on the shelves, destroy or return to the manufacturer any defective items, etc. So, yes, there is a staffing cost, but it doesn't appear to be large, so this incremental cost shouldn't be a big point for further debate.

The real question is, after a customer is given a refund for a defective item, who covers the cost of the item? The store, the corporation, or the manufacturer?

If the manufacturer agreed to credit the store for the wholesale cost of the item (maybe first needing a RMA number), then the store is covered. So, the manufacturer lost out (seems fair - the shipped a defective product).

But what happens if the manufacturer will not credit the store? Maybe the store was too quick to give the refund, and the manufacturerer disputes it. Or, there was no RMA number, and now the manufacturer won't pay. Or, maybe it's a "repair only" product, and the manufacturer said from the beginning that they would not credit the store for a defective item - i.e. they would only cover the cost of a repair, not a refund. In these cases, wouldn't the store lose the wholesale value of the item?

Some have posted here saying that there's some little known method for a store to request a credit from the CT corporation. If that's true, but nobody at the store does the rights steps, then it looks like the store still loses.

Even if the store does the right steps and is credited by the Corporation, then it's just CTC that is now out the money. There hasn't been a method described where the corporation gets money from the manufacturer.

The same thing goes for "no warranty" items. If the manufacturer said they wouldn't cover repairs, exchanges or refunds, then the store would have no way to get that money back if they gave the customer a refund.

So, basically we have several senarios where a store loses money by giving a customer a refund, and so they have a financial incentive to refuse a refund, even if the item is genuinely defective.

What a loser. I particularly like it when you comment when you have no knowledge.

Poor faker advocate...so easy to call your lies each and every day.
 

CTH8R

New member
... so easy to call your lies each and every day.

so what are these lies you wrote about? please be specific and provide proof that the statements are untrue.

no, the only lies come from the ct reps - nice way to show the real nature of the ct liars.

the only thing you've proven is that consumers can't trust anything a ct reps says - nice job!

for more examples of ct lies, see here: https://www.canadiantiresucks.net/g...y-do-ct-defenders-post-so-many-lies-here.html

oh, and don't forget to donate! see button at the top! also click on few ad's - support the good work of CanadianTireSucks.net!!

thanks to the ct rep for driving up traffic, too, LOL!
 

CT Challenger

New member
Here's yet another example of a ct rep posting on this very site, saying that refunds cost ct money:

https://www.canadiantiresucks.net/g...arranty-no-refund-no-exchange-2.html#post2915

".....the customer NEVER bears the cost of obtaining a refund or repair or exchange. If an item is defective, the store pays those costs. "

So, were all these previous CT Rep's lying? Or is the new rep lying now?

Well, that proves that at least some of them are liars (but then, we knew that, of course).

But which ones lied when? They can't all be telling the truth.

Well, based on logic and the explanations already given, we can be sure that in some cases a refund will cost the store, or at least the corporation.

Plus we have a long list of the lies they tell - and they have already told a few right on this new thread, LOL!

Oh, and one more story from a ct rep:

https://www.canadiantiresucks.net/g...plaints-chat/707-sale-goods-act.html#post2414

"For too long retailers have shouldered the burden of bad products"

Yes, even CT Me told us that there are bad products, and that someone must "shoulder the burden" - and she wanted it to be the customer, naturally.

Does any of this matter to consumers? Only to understand the mind of a ct rep. Which seems to involve a lot of lies and deception.

Too bad for them that the laws in Ontario say that it's the retailer's burden. For details see https://www.canadiantiresucks.net/g...aints-chat/707-sale-goods-act-6.html#post3613
 

CT Challenger

New member
Someone who says they work at CT, explaining how a store will lose money if they give a refund or exchange:

Obviously stores get items at a lower cost. It's not a charity, all stores sell things at a higher price to make a profit, and owners aren't willing to lose money by doing returns that are not accepted by the manufacturer. The money would be coming straight out of the owners pocket and they would end up losing money if they did that for everyone.

We do get credit from the manufacturer if it is an acceptable return/exchange (within the 90 days, after that it depends on the warranty the item has. But the store is still credited for it) For example if an item is repair only, the manufacturer will credit us to get it repaired, but they won't credit us to give you your money back, or a brand new item.
 

Angry CT Guy

Posted by an unregistered user
Someone who says they work at CT, explaining how a store will lose money if they give a refund or exchange:

Repair work is done by authorized repair centers and the repair center gets reimbursed by the manufacturer for warranty work. The store would be reimbursed if the item can't be fixed and the manufacturer issues a return authorization so the customer can get an exchange or refund. Whoever posted their interpretation of how they think it works was incorrect.
 

CT Challenger

New member
Repair work is done by authorized repair centers and the repair center gets reimbursed by the manufacturer for warranty work. The store would be reimbursed if the item can't be fixed and the manufacturer issues a return authorization so the customer can get an exchange or refund. Whoever posted their interpretation of how they think it works was incorrect.

So, if a CT store gives a customer a refund, instead of making them wait for a repair, the store will lose money. Interesting!

It's also interesting how CT is the only major retailer to make customers go through any kind of 'repair' process for any products, even if they are factory defects right out of the box.

Yup, other stores will give refunds for at least some period of time, but you have no such guarantee at Crappy Tire - but I suppose that's the risk a customer takes by shopping at a lower-tier retailer like CT.

Either way, CT should at least be up front about their crappy policies, and not pretend that they are the same as other retailers. That lie is getting old, realy fast.

Consumers should consider spending a few extra bucks, and support a retailer who will stand behind what they sell. Not the 'bargain basement' crap CT is selling without return options.
 

CT Me / Lawguy

Posted by an unregistered user
So, if a CT store gives a customer a refund, instead of making them wait for a repair, the store will lose money. Interesting!

It's also interesting how CT is the only major retailer to make customers go through any kind of 'repair' process for any products, even if they are factory defects right out of the box.

Yup, other stores will give refunds for at least some period of time, but you have no such guarantee at Crappy Tire - but I suppose that's the risk a customer takes by shopping at a lower-tier retailer like CT.

Either way, CT should at least be up front about their crappy policies, and not pretend that they are the same as other retailers. That lie is getting old, realy fast.

Consumers should consider spending a few extra bucks, and support a retailer who will stand behind what they sell. Not the 'bargain basement' crap CT is selling without return options.

Continuing to display your mis-informed ways for all to see!
Your opinion is clearly flawed in several areas

1) 'bargain basement' crap as you call it, comes from national manufacturers and is a lot of the same stuff you find at other retailers, especially if we are talking about repair items which are typically gas powered. All of our private branded items (Yardwords, Yardmachines etc) are MTD products, who also manufacture Troy Bilt, YardMan, Remington, White, Club Cadet, Bolens. In fact a lot of the machines are identical, just different paint and labelling. And where might you find those machines? Home Depot? Rona? Yes!!!! In fact here's an interesting tidbit of information.... they are even the same service centers!! MTD Authorized service centers. Last week I need a recoil for a chainsaw of mine so I could chop up some wood with the family while we were out quadding. So on the way out for the trip I stopped at the local service center to grab the part. I spent an extra few minutes talking to the owner of said repair shop, introduced myself as one of the local CT Dealers and asked what he had there from our customers. While browsing around, guess what else was there?! TWO club cadet units from Home Depot for warranty repair.

You want some truths, here's an exercise for you. go to MTD Canada's website. Hit Service button. Pick a local city or town and an authorized repair center. Call them, tell them you purchased a Club Cadet unit from Home Depot, and ask them if they are the place to go for a repair under warranty. They will tell you YES!!!!

Faker Advocate Fail
thanks for playing

2) Repair warranty is standard across all retailers. It's been proven many many times on here, you just choose to ignore the facts. Buy a Club Cadet tractor from HOme Depot, it goes to an authorized service center for repair if it breaks.

It's simple, if you want to be an educated consumer, ask before you buy. There is tons of documentation available to you, if you take 30 seconds to simply ask for it.
 

CT Me / Lawguy

Posted by an unregistered user
http://www.cubcadet.ca/webapp/wcs/s...rView?langId=-1&storeId=30000&catalogId=35000

In fact I went one step beyond....

Look what we have here. On their home page for service, did you buy your product at home depot? Yes! here are your authorized service centers - ahhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahhaha

illegal warranty repair at canadian tire you say?
nobody else has a repair warranty?

Come on, when are you going to get your FACTS together and allow the truth to shine through your clouded opinion?

DAVIDLer we miss you, come back hahahaha

It's been so long since we say a copy and paste link to the Sale of Goods Act or Consumer Protection Act
 

CT Challenger

New member
Still trying to fool consumers, I see.

Well, the issue isn't with who made the products (although many of your store-brands are made you own notoriously poor quality standard).

No, it's with the "no refund" and "no exchange" return polices that CT sells them under. No other major Canadian retailer does this - only CT ... and the bargain basements and ‘clearance’ stores – welcome to the lower tier, customers!

I see you are also trying to confuse consumers by pretending that a warranty and a return policy are the same thing. Well, maybe they are treated that way by Crappy Tire, but no other major Canadian retailer does.

Sure, other stores sell things that have a manufacturer’s "repair only" warranty. But that has nothing to do with the return policies they have. Sorry, Crappy Tire! You suck!

Yes, all the other major retailers offer some period of time (at least 30 days) to bring it back for a refund or exchange. But Crappy Tire? They offers zero days on “repair only” and “exchange only” products.

This is the sad truth about how low Crappy Tire has descended with their crappy policies, to keep prices down and profits up.

None of the others have attempted to screw customers over like that. "Hey, look at our low prices! But our polices? Huh? What? Oh, hey! Look at the warranty! Same as down the street! Don't worry about policies - it's all Easy!"

It’s really disgusting that people like you continue to try deceiving ordinary Canadian consumers in this way.

A pathetic grab for more profits.

Nice “customer experience”, Crappy Tire!
 

CT Me / Lawguy

Posted by an unregistered user
Actually you are the one confused.
Although warranty policies and return policies can be different, they can also be the same in some instances. The return policy on a gas powered item is no returns. in the event you can not return an item, it flips instantly to the warranty policy which in the case of tractors is 4 year repair only.

The same rules apply at Home Depot, Rona, Home Hardware, John Deere etc.....

Sorry if you don't believe it, you're just choosing to ignore the truth.

*****

Another example of the same, except exchange only, no refund is sump pumps, one that I know happened in my store this morning. A guy bought a sump pump two days ago during a rain storm, brings it back today tries to get his money back, used. Said he no longer needs it. was denied refund. then changes his story to, it's broken. No problem, we will exchange it for another pump. Still not happy. Clearly emptied his basement of the water, wanted money back. Weekend rental!! - denied

Refund policy - exchange only
warranty policy - exchange for same or different sump pump only -if defective

******
 

CT Challenger

New member
Although warranty policies and return policies can be different, they can also be the same in some instances.

That sentence is just full of typical CT deceptions.

Now, I suppose the goods news is, that someone from CT has finally let their guard down, and grudgingly admitted that a manufacturer’s warrant actually “can be different” from a retailer’s return policy.

But it would be nice if some day someone from CT came clean and admitted that they are entirely different things.

So, what’s wrong with that sentence? For one thing, there is no such thing as a "warranty policy". And a manufacturer’s warranty, and a retailer’s return policy, are two very different things. For starters, a manufacturer’s warranty is offered by a manufacturer, and not a retailer. And, or course, a refund policy is offered by a retailer, and not a manufacturer. Yes, very different.

And, at all major Canadian retailer, there’s a period of time when the return policy allows you to bring things back for a refund if you aren’t happy. It’s usually at least 30 days. After that? That’s when the warranty starts to matter. But CT’s “repair only” products have no time period at all when you can bring it back. Their return policy is, “you bought it, you own it”.

But why all the deceptions and mis-information?

Because Crappy Tire doesn’t want customers to know that many of the crappy products they sell can’t be returned for a refund or exchange. They know that consumers wouldn’t buy it from CT in the first place, if they knew it was basically “as is” or “clearance”, if they could buy it down the street with a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. And they know if they the receipt said, “this sale is final sale, non-returnable, no refundable, non-exchangeable”, that customers who spot this would go right to the returns desk and demand their money back. And rightly so!

So, CT’s problem is, “how can we hide the fact that these products can’t be returned?”

The answer is, they hide the return policy behind a statement about a “warranty”. That’s why the web site and the receipt say nothing about the return policy, and instead simply says, “repair only warranty” or “exchange warranty”.

Nice, trick, huh?

What does the customer think about that statement? “Repair Only Warranty”? They think something like, “Gee, that’s interesting. There’s a ‘repair only’ warranty on this item. But who cares, I can bring it back for an ‘easy return’ within 90 days, just like the big sign and the web site say”. But when the customer tries to return it, that’s when they get the surprise. That’s when they find out what the return policy really is, and it’s far from “easy”.

That’s the first time they find out the real return policy: ‘No refunds, no exchanges. You bought it, you own it’.

“What?”, says the customer. “You never told me that the return policy on this item is ‘no refunds, no exchanges’. You said it would be ‘easy’, and I just had to ‘keep my receipt’. What’s this crap about a warranty”? And THAT is when someone from CT will lie to your face (just like they lie on this web site), and say, “Oh, a manufacturer’s warranty and a retailer’s return policy are THE SAME THING. You must just be CONFUSED”.

Outrageous!

Yes, it would be nice if they would tell customers what their return policies really are, on their web site. It wouldn’t even be so bad if they at least told customers the return policy on the receipt (even thought it’s too late then, and the customer already bought it). But the customer doesn’t find out until they try to return something. And that’s when the find out what the return policy really is.

Hidden behind a statement about a warranty.

Hidden behind layers of CT lies.

And that’s just for ‘change-of-mind’ or ‘unwanted’ goods. Things are even more devious when it comes to defective items. To learn more, check out this thread: https://www.canadiantiresucks.net/g...pair-only-warranty-no-refund-no-exchange.html
 

CT Me / Lawguy

Posted by an unregistered user
Tell customers what the policy is you say?
Oh you mean like this? Right on the website you say? Yup that's our website. and look it says 4 year repair only

Troy-Bilt Lawn Tractor, 24 HP | Canadian Tire

Now surely if you're smart enough to operate a riding mower, you'd be smart enough to interpret the words REPAIR ONLY - 4 years.


Better yet, as I sit poolside this morning with a fresh coffee in hand, doing my daily orders what do I see? $30,000 worth of merchandise sold yesterday, approximately $3000 of which was a pair of riding lawn tractors. Two new customers in town with a shiny new ride-on to play with today (no i don't mean your wife) it's a lawn tractor. Complete with 4 years trouble free warranty.

Also worth noting that in my entire post yesterday, the one about CubCadet units, local repair depot having Home Depot warranty items in their shop, next to CT units all you could manage to attack was one sentence... warranty vs. return policy? LOL Hilarious
Why is it that you glossed over so many important details about our competitors having the EXACT same repair policy?

I await your response faker consumer advocate
 

Guest-0477

Posted by an unregistered user
Troy-Bilt Lawn Tractor, 24 HP | Canadian Tire

Now surely if you're smart enough to operate a riding mower, you'd be smart enough to interpret the words REPAIR ONLY - 4 years.

Hmm.

You seem to be slipping into your old habit of lying again.

It doesn't say anything about a return policy on there.

And it doesn't say, "REPAIR ONLY - 4 years".

It says, "4 year repair only warranty"

Caught lying again. So typical.

And still no return policy statement. Hmm!

I wonder how your customers would feel if they knew that it had the same return policy that all the "clearance" items and "as-is" products have.

Nice trick, CT.

Nice lie.
 

Guest-0477

Posted by an unregistered user
I checked with Home Depot today.

30 day satisfaction guarantee on everything they sell, including riding mowers.

You've got a long way to go to catch up with them, CT.

A very long way.

Another nice lie, though.

I'm sure it fools some of your soon-to-be-ex customers.
 

Guest-0477

Posted by an unregistered user
ha-ha!

the ct liar got caught again

they said theres a return policy statement on their web site that says REPAIR ONLY - 4 years

turns out there's nothing on there about returns at all

lol - they dont even know what is or isnt on their own web site

hilarious!
 

CT Me / Lawguy

Posted by an unregistered user
Hmm.

You seem to be slipping into your old habit of lying again.

It doesn't say anything about a return policy on there.

And it doesn't say, "REPAIR ONLY - 4 years".

It says, "4 year repair only warranty"

Caught lying again. So typical.

And still no return policy statement. Hmm!

I wonder how your customers would feel if they knew that it had the same return policy that all the "clearance" items and "as-is" products have.

Nice trick, CT.

Nice lie.

nice lie? LOL

4 year repair only
repair only 4 year

Ummm that's the same thing. You do understand English right?

No return policy listed because there is no return policy. How many times do you need that one explained. You buy a gas powered item, you own it. If it breaks, it gets repaired under warranty. that's how it works
If someone ended up with a total lemon, i'd find a way to make sure they got looked after with a new tractor in the first 30 days.

now your 30 day Home Depot claim, possible but also not listed anywhere on their website and surely not what i've been told at Home Depot. Regardless, what happens after 30 days? IT GOES FOR WARRANTY REPAIR. They must be breaking the law, because there have been dozens of claims here that repair warranties are illegal. How do you respond to that now?
 

Guest-0477

Posted by an unregistered user
You are getting truly desperate.

First, you said there was a return policy.

Then you said it was the same thing as the warranty.

Now you say there is no policy.

Around and around you go.

One lie after another.

The reality is, there is a policy.

For "Exchange Only" products, your policy is "No refunds".

For "Repair Only" products, your policy is "No refunds, no exchanges".

Why not just be tell customers that? Why tell so many lies?

Because you know it would cut into your profits.

No other major retailer screws with customers like this.

No other major retailer has "exchange only" products.

No other major retailer has "repair only" products.

No other major retailer hides their real policies like this.

No other major retailer tells lies like this to cover things up.

No other major retailer refuses refund for used products, or even for open boxes.

Costco. Walmart. Home Depot.

Their policy is, if you aren't satisfied, you have at least 30 days. Often longer.

So, you start telling lies about the other major retailers, too.

Trying to make them sound as bad as you are.

But nobody has policies that are as bad as Crappy Tire's are, and nobody else needs to lie about it.

Nice job, CT Liar.

Good way to represent your company.
 

Angry CT Guy

Posted by an unregistered user
Can you pass on the links to walmart's, home Depot's and costco's no questions asked return policy for 30 days...I just can't seem to find them.

I did find these links that contradict what you say though

Pressure washer attachment sold at Home Depot recalled | Reuters
Why the replacement? No mention of a refund?


Merchandise must be returned within 90 days of purchase in unused, like-new condition.
Items purchased on homedepot.ca cannot be returned to our stores.
A copy of the customer receipt and original packing slip must accompany all returns.
A refund will be issued only to the original credit card.

From here:Return Policy | Home Depot Canada

Kind of blows the theory that they take back unwanted and change of mind returns within 30 days

Wal-Mart, where my satisfaction is NOT Guaranteed

The consumer was probably just lying.

Now for Costco.....they have the best return policy of any retailer that I know of. I agree that you can return just about anything at any time within a reasonable period of time. That's excellent, it's also what you get when you PAY an annual membership fee and can't use a credit card (generally charge a business about 2% per transaction)
 
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