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Thread: What's the Deal with the Owners/Dealers?

  1. #1
    Senior Member CTH8R's Avatar
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    What's the Deal with the Owners/Dealers?

    It’s high time we had a little thread going on Dealers.

    One thing I’ve noticed, is the number of “Troll” posts in the other threads, which sometime succeed in steering the conversation off into the weeds. We can just pick up those discussions over here, and keep our focus.

    There’s an old saying: “Know thy enemy”, so this can be a good place to start.

    By looking into their goals and motivations, we might have a better understanding of why they do the strange things we see, not just on this stie, but in the stores.

    Here are some sample questions to explore:

    - How come they are so aggressive with shop-lifters?
    - Do they own the inventory in their stores, or does CTC own it?
    - Why do they not stock items that are advertised in the flyer?
    - Why do they keep posting such ridiculous claims on this web site?
    - How come they have such a short-term view of customer service?
    - Are any of them actually rich? How many? How long does it take? Can it be done honesty?
    - Are there really any that aren’t so bad?

    Plus, we can have fun picking apart their flawed logic, misrepresentations, and false claims, without worrying about disrupting the other treads.

  2. #2
    Senior Member CTH8R's Avatar
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    Re: What's the Deal with the Owners/Dealers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Owner 1 View Post
    You have been very clear that your conclusion is more and more Canadians are choosing not to shop at Canadian Tire.
    This is obviously true for any large business in a competitive environment. Businesses lose customers over time, plain and simple. The former customers decide not to shop there anymore, go to the competitors, or simply no longer find it convenient.

    The only way this could NOT be true, is if some of the existing Boycotters, suddenly decide to resume shopping at Crappy Tire. I.e., the boycotter resume beign customers. But this number would have to exceed the number of customers who are at the same time becoming Boycotters. See how it works? It all hinges on ... math!

    The next question is then, "Are the number of Boycotters increasing FASTER for Crappy Tire, than for other similar stores?"

    That's not so easy to measure. But the number of people posting their boycotting pledges right on Crappy Tire's own Facebook page (as well as elsewhere on the internet) should certainly be cause for concern to any smart business owner, who has 'hitched his wagon' to the Canadian Tire brand.


    Quote Originally Posted by Owner 1 View Post
    .... information show the exact opposite of what you claim. For decades now, sales continue to grow.
    Interesting ... but irrelevant.

    The point of the "Boycott" count, is not to track the total number of CT shoppers, or even the net sales.

    It's to track a small sample of the many, many Canadians who have stated publicly on various web sites their intention to boycott CT.

    Not so hard to understand, if one understands business and, ya know, that thing called 'math'.
    Last edited by CTH8R; October 24th, 2013 at 11:33 AM.

  3. #3

    Re: What's the Deal with the Owners/Dealers?

    Oh this thread should be interesting. Can't wait to see what you cook up about dealers, all of which you've never met or spoke to.

    Just one important note about math and customer counts. A customer gets upset and opts to shop with a competitor and not with Canadian Tire any longer. Yes that does happen and we lose that customer and a competitor gains that customer and the related revenue and profit. You entirely missed the other part of that sequence of events. A customer goes to Walmart, NAPA or TSC Store and leaves disappointed for whatever reason. That same customer now go seeks a competitor to shop at. Guess who that could be. Canadian Tire. So a now ex customer of Walmart, now becomes a customer of Canadian Tire.

    Now I know that you'll have a tough time with this concept, but that's based on the fact that you think CT could never gain a customer from a competitor. Then here's where that damn math comes in again. When sales go up, that means one of two things, or both happened. Either more customers came in and shopped, or the same amount of customers or less customers spent more money. So considering our sales track record over the last year, five years, ten years, twenty years etc..... anyone who understands business can make a reasonable conclusion that we are gaining more then we are losing.

    Simple really

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    Senior Member CTH8R's Avatar
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    Re: What's the Deal with the Owners/Dealers?

    The "Join The Boycott" thread records a small fraction of the growing number of Canadians who has pledged to never shop at Crappy Tire again. See https://www.canadiantiresucks.net/ge...ire-again.html

    Recently, The Moaner claimed that CT's quarterly reports state this same statistic:

    Quote Originally Posted by Owner 1 View Post
    ... You spend all this time of yours counting the customers that boycott Canadian Tire. You have been very clear that your conclusion is more and more Canadians are choosing not to shop at Canadian Tire. ... the data is posted for you four times a year. As a publicly traded company, we announce results.
    So, where in the Quarterly Report is this data on the number of Canadians who "are choosing not to shop at Canadian Tire"?

    Well, I couldn't find it, and I look it over every time it comes out.

    The Moan was asked (yet again) to back up this claim, but so far, we haven't gotten an answer. I wonder why?

    Oh, well. I guess we can just add this to the growing list of things that The Moaner 1 claims to have access to, yet never provides.

    This includes information like:

    - a new way for customers to get refunds from CT.
    - details on the warranties of every automotive battery sold in Canada.

    I'm sure there are others I've since given up on - I'll add them to this list when i remember ...
    Last edited by CTH8R; October 25th, 2013 at 09:51 PM.

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    Re: What's the Deal with the Owners/Dealers?

    More fascinating hypotheses, from The Moaner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owner 1 View Post
    Oh this thread should be interesting.
    I agree it should be interesting to try to see the world through the eyes of the owner/dealer/moaners.

    If this latest post is any indication, it is a bizarre world indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owner 1 View Post
    Can't wait to see what you cook up about dealers ...
    Right off the bat, we are into paranoia, regarding customers and their intent.

    When does an honest attempt to understand become an attempt to "cook up" things? Apparently when you are an owner/dealer moaner!

    Quote Originally Posted by Owner 1 View Post
    ... all of which you've never met or spoke to.
    Yet another oddly turned phrase.

    If the Moaner/Owner is stating that no one consumer who posts here have "never met or spoke[n] to all" 500 or so dealers, then that is almost certainly the case - but who has, outside this closed circle of colleagues? Why state the obvious?

    But if the Moaner/Owner/One's strange phrase actually means "None of you have ever met or spoken to an actual dealer", then that is obviously false. With so many of them, both active and retired, scattered across the country, it is almost certain that most of the consumers have at least spoken to at least one of them, at some point.

    (In fact, it's likely that we met or spoke to one while trying to pry a refund out of their tightly held fist!)

    Very strange actions, indeed. An ambiguous phrase, that is either plainly true, or plainly false. In either case, why post such 'dribble' at all?

    But I'm very glad that there is at least one Dealer/Owner who is willing to throw so much kindling on this fledgling fire!
    Last edited by CTH8R; October 26th, 2013 at 08:56 PM.

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    Re: What's the Deal with the Owners/Dealers?

    I also see that most of The Moaner One's most recent post isn't at all 'on topic', because it isn't even about the Dealers/Owners.

    Instead, it's mainly about Canadian Tire's financial state, which are best addressed in this thread: https://www.canadiantiresucks.net/ge...ial-state.html

    But there are some interesting statements about "math" that deserve some enlightenment ...

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    Re: What's the Deal with the Owners/Dealers?

    There has been a lot of interest lately in the customers who announce they will boycott Crappy Tire. See this popular thread:

    https://www.canadiantiresucks.net/ge...ire-again.html

    And how does The Moaner respond?

    Quote Originally Posted by Owner 1 View Post
    Just one important note about math and customer counts.
    So, not only is this comment posted in the wrong thread, but The Moaner is trying to steer the discussion away from the number of boycotters, and instead steer it towards “customer counts”.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owner 1 View Post
    Now I know that you'll have a tough time with this concept, but that's based on the fact that you think CT could never gain a customer from a competitor.
    And, the usual misrepresentation about what consumers have written on this site: I’m pretty sure nobody here ever claimed that Crappy Tire “could never gain a customer from a competitor”.

    Very interesting indeed!

    Why would an alleged owner try to pull one over on us like this?

    Why even bother posting here, if they won't discuss the topics at hand, and instead try changing the subject all the time?

    These Moaner/Owners really are strange and inexplicable creatures, indeed.

    Unless maybe it's all just simple Trolling ....
    Last edited by CTH8R; October 27th, 2013 at 07:11 AM.

  8. #8
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    Re: What's the Deal with the Owners/Dealers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Owner 1 View Post
    Just one important note about math and customer counts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Owner 1 View Post
    Then here's where that damn math comes in again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Owner 1 View Post
    This Moaner person seems, well, 'mathematically challenged'.


    They write a lot about “math”, but don’t provide any.

    You see, mathematics involves numbers and operations, like addition, subtraction, multiplication, etc. You get the idea (even if The Moan doesn't).

    So, where are these numbers? The Moaner provides none.

    What mathematical operations were used? None. Supposedly there's some addition (counting) going on somewhere. But, The Moaner1 doesn't mention it at all!

    So, I guess we are expected to blindly accept The Moaners baseless conclusion, that they are somehow, magically gaining more customers from their competitors, than they are losing to those same competitors.

    Yet all of this is to be taken simply on faith, without even one iota of the much-claimed “math”.

    Well, I do know where there’s some math on this site.

    It currently stands at 338, right here: https://www.canadiantiresucks.net/ge...html#post10460

    LMAO!
    Last edited by CTH8R; October 27th, 2013 at 07:10 AM.

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    Re: What's the Deal with the Owners/Dealers?

    The Moaner certainly likes to post a lot of crap.

    But it would be interesting if they'd actually follow through on some of the data they claim to have.

    In addition to the recent claim that CT tracks the number of boycotters (i.e., Canadians who have vowed to never shop there again), I wonder if The Moan has any "math" (i.e., actual numbers) to back up this claim:

    Quote Originally Posted by Owner 1 View Post
    A customer goes to Walmart, NAPA or TSC Store and leaves disappointed for whatever reason. That same customer now go seeks a competitor to shop at. Guess who that could be. Canadian Tire. So a now ex customer of Walmart, now becomes a customer of Canadian Tire. ... here's where that damn math comes in again .... anyone who understands business can make a reasonable conclusion that we are gaining more then we are losing.
    So, is The Moan claiming that there is data on this, too? On the number of Canadians who are boycotting OTHER chains, and therefore could possibly begin to reluctantly shop at Crappy Tire?

    Some things to keep in mind:

    - The return policies at Crappy Tire have all been shown to be inferior to other major Canadian retailers. Worse for unwanted goods, and especially worse for defective goods. You just NEVER hear about someone boycotting, say, Home Depot, because of a "Repair Only" policy. So, the people who boycott over return policies, will be going AWAY FROM the inferior policies at CT, and TOWARDS the superior policies at all the other retailers.

    - What about in-store, pre-sales service? It has been widely reported that CT has the worst customer service in Canada. They were second only to Zeller, who no longer exist, so CT is now in the "top spot" (or is that "bottom spot"?). So, anyone boycotting a retailer for poor customer service, will be mainly going AWAY FROM the inferior service at CT and TOWARDS the superior service at other retailers.

    - And what of automotive service? Even CT's own Facbook page is clogged with story after horror-story of incompetent, incomplete, over-priced and unnecessary repairs. Again, people will be mostly moving AWAY from CT and TOWARDS competitors.

    So, this theory that somehow Canadians are going to give up superior policies, service and repairs, and somehow move en masse to The Red Triangle of Crap, is ludicrous.

    And, even if some dissatisfied customers somehow down-graded their retailer-of-choice to Crappy Tire, how long will it be, before they, too, are mis-treated enough, that they seek out one of the many superior stores/shops in their area?
    Last edited by CTH8R; October 27th, 2013 at 12:43 PM.

  10. #10

    Re: What's the Deal with the Owners/Dealers?

    actually the argument that some may move away from walmart to CT may have some merit in the short term....but as soon as the mover realises what the horrible policies of CT are,it wont take long for him/her to do a U-turn.

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