Stupid return policy to hide employee theft?

[Angry CT Guy]

CT dealers/ clerks/ defenders will use any excuse to screw the customer. Everyone knows you're not any of those things you've compared yourself too. You're just a store and that's it. And like the store you're just as dismissive and in denial of your negative role in the bigger picture. I like how you never never answered the question if our information is safe with a ct store. Your silence is very telling. Somebody had their id stolen, and stuck with fraudulent credit card charges and remembered giving their id to a CT store. Usually intuition is right on the money. Say what you will next. We all know you're not a good place to shop and you don't take care of your customers. Over in another thread CT Manager has openly admitted that you sell junk i.e.specifically bikes, simoniz, air mattresses. All with quality issues, that should be rightly returned or exchanged. Except that you deny those people, give them the run around and keep their money.

I thought maybe you could read between the lines or actually had some knowledge. I should have known better. ID is not recorded in a store, it is illegal to record it, but not to have someone show it to prove they are who they say they are. Their names, address, phone number are kept on file, not shared with other stores or the home office. Payment systems that use debit or credit cards do not show the customer's card number....it is x'd out so that no one internally at a store has the info after the purchase. The information is as secure as any of the one's listed above-how secure-not sure, but every one of them take the same precautions as the next and all have privacy statements online.
Just for the record, customers aren't on the hook for fraudulent charges on their credit cards or debit cards-the banks are.....get your facts straight before posting.
You need to do a little better before you share your often completely wrong thoughts....it's called ignorance.

[Guest-0276]

You are so ignorant don't you realize what you're saying? Maybe you're a little slow.

ID is not recorded in a store, it is illegal to record it...

but then you go on to say

Their names, address, phone number are kept on file, not shared with other stores or the home office.

Caught your own lie did you? Let me correct you on that as the head office has already stated they have no power over the dealers, as each store is independently owned. They do what they want with the information. Who knows what your clerks are doing behind the desk? Has Canadian Tire ever fired someone for theft or bad performance? Guess what ?Those same people are collecting our information. So how can you tell us it's safe? You can't.

Just for the record, customers aren't on the hook for fraudulent charges on their credit cards or debit cards-the banks are.....get your facts straight before posting.

No. You get your facts straight!!! You have no clue what you're talking about. The hours and days wasted combing through each and every transaction and talking to a multitude of government agencies, banks and credit bureaus to straighten out the mess. You're clueless on many fronts especially where ID theft is concerned. And as anyone who's been through this once, they all know how unrelenting banks can be where it concerns debit card fraud. The process of getting those charges removed and your proper credit corrected is far from perfect, and charges can and do stay on.

So stick to selling bad bikes, simoniz pressure washers and attacking customers like you do at the store. Your store has got quite the bad reputation and growing everyday. You're part of the problem.

[CT Me / Lawguy]

Speaking of someone with no clue, look at this speculative junk you guys are spewing without knowing anything.

Stores keep on file name, phone number and address. That is NOT considered identification. Your ID is asked for in order to verify that information. They do not record SIN, Drivers License numbers or credit card/debit card information.

Card theft happens when someone adds a card reader to an existing debit machine. the card reader takes all of the information stored in the magnetic stripe, stores it or transmits it remotely to an outside computer which then allows replication of the data onto a second card which then gets used fraudulantly. You may have noticed at every Canadian Tire in the country they have now added a security metal case, metal backing plate over the data cable and an air craft cable attached to the back of each pin pad. This was a requirement in 2010 to prevent the pin pad from being changed. So your theory is well........out!

Sorting out credit debit fraud is not hard. If you do what's called a transaction dispute, it is now up to the retailer to provide the information to the bank to prove the card was there. this includes either the transaction and transit ID information that is encoded in a receipt which the bank uses to prove that the card was swiped, or a physical credit card manual form (the old hard copy imprint) to show the card was physically in the store for that transaction and not manually typed in. In the absence of that documentation, the transaction is rejected and the retailer is on the hook. If the retailer proves the card was physically present for said transaction, the bank is on the hook.



All of the credit card information is blocked out on the receipts, at the registers and in the computer system that maintains the record of transactions. Nobody at a store is able to obtain that data.

Funny how in the last few days this has turned into a bunch of LIES and BS that theives will be murdered & credit information is stolen. You might do a bit of homework and discover that in 2010 some of the places that had mass theft of customer data was actually BANKS! Yes that's right your beloved TD Canada Trust had a security breach.

[Guest-0276]

Trust your CT retailer with your ID. We know what's best for you. It's not id unless we say it's id. Ignore the obvious ways your credit information can be used without your knowing and you'll have no problem. Trust your CT retailer. Ignore those statistics which points to internal theft as the biggest cause of retail losses, and that other dumb statistic which makes retail a very easy target for id thieves never mind the banks. We help protect people from id theft by getting more private information from everyone. But trust us, thieves won't use that personal information to steal in your name. Trust your CT retailer.

[Angry CT Guy]

Trust your CT retailer with your ID. We know what's best for you. It's not id unless we say it's id. Ignore the obvious ways your credit information can be used without your knowing and you'll have no problem. Trust your CT retailer. Ignore those statistics which points to internal theft as the biggest cause of retail losses, and that other dumb statistic which makes retail a very easy target for id thieves never mind the banks. We help protect people from id theft by getting more private information from everyone. But trust us, thieves won't use that personal information to steal in your name. Trust your CT retailer.

You really are a dumb fuck stating bullshit after bullshit. You do not seem to know much. Do your homework before posting, otherwise you are just a raving lunatic to boot.

[CT Me / Lawguy]

Trust your CT retailer with your ID. We know what's best for you. It's not id unless we say it's id. Ignore the obvious ways your credit information can be used without your knowing and you'll have no problem. Trust your CT retailer. Ignore those statistics which points to internal theft as the biggest cause of retail losses, and that other dumb statistic which makes retail a very easy target for id thieves never mind the banks. We help protect people from id theft by getting more private information from everyone. But trust us, thieves won't use that personal information to steal in your name. Trust your CT retailer.

ID has nothing to do with employees stealing from a store, however nice try at mixing topics to suit your argument. NEXT

So let's look at some information, right along your lines. To date, in Canada only one major retailer has had an incident of major security breach - Winners/HomeSense. In fact it was their parent company in the United States TJX who's systems were breached and information about several million customers was released. OOPS. No major breaches at Canadian Tire, Home Depot, Walmart, Rona and so on.

Your "apparent" statistics are only partially true. Retailers are very targetted for debit card fraud, there you are correct. what you are incorrect in, is assuming Canadian Tire is the main target or even the thief. The correct tidbit you've skipped over is that small retail outfits and unmanned debit/bank machines are responsible for the majority of debit card frauds through duplication. So when you see that off brand ATM at a bar, airport or restaurant, that's the place to be leary. Unmanned machines have a exponentially higher rate of fake card readers installed then anywhere else. The second is the small retailer. Look closely at their machines. They likely have not been secured. By secured it is meant that they simply can not be removed. The way the debit card info is stolen is to have a card reader installed onto an existing machine, or have the whole pin pad changed. All large retailers have in the last 12 months secured their debit pads in one of a few fashions. 1) the pads are attached to a metal case, which is attached to the desk, or to a pedestal. 2) a metal security tab affixed to the back covering the data cable, making it impossible to unplug the pinpad and install a replacement with card reader. 3) a combination of the above (metal casing with short security cable tethering the machine to the register or desk.

In any event the goal is to deter a thief from removing the existing pin pad and adding their own, which incidentally still operate like a normal debit machine, and copy the information from the magnetic stripe to a remote device.
In a small mini mart type store as an example, the common practice is to ask the lone attendant for help with an item, they get distracted for 30 seconds, and the pin pad is swapped out while the clerk is unknowing.

So you think you know so much about debit fraud....and that Canadian Tire's are stealing your information. Think again sir, do some homework.

[Guest-0276]

Somebody must've stumbled on some truth for those CT dealers, managers to be down right rude and abusive to a stranger online. Not that much different than being in the store having the manager / owner tell a customer to "fuck off!!! and don't come back for asking for an exchange". That's on top of ripping off the customer. Same attitude. Can't wait for the other american stores to come up so I can vote with my money.

So a CT dealer makes a claim that information off our ID is safe with them. Oh and our name, address, phone number isn't private or ID...that's right, they're asking us not to question the obvious and give anything they ask like sheep. I asked a simple question is anything safe with so much theft going on internally? The owner/ dealer decides what's done with YOUR information, and it's different from store to store. Yet not one mention of that, but instead I get called a liar and it's BS, and f you that and this. Oh didn't a show capture a CT mechanic trying to rip off a customer on hidden camera? Consumers decide for yourselves.

Second you compared CT, your security of peoples ID to that of a bank. I pointed out the facts again that most ID is stolen in the retail industry. Your reply was rather long winded and proved nothing. Our ID is still at risk in your hands. Are you banking on the fact that you haven't made the news YET for a security breach before the obvious hits you!??? Not to mention the time and headaches on the part of the customer for cleaning up after you!?!?!?

Lets see... 500 stores across canada, all different owners, all do things differently, some have different computer systems, corporate has no control...Yet all hassle the customer for ID for simple returns. And here you are telling us it's safe. Consumers you decide for yourselves again.

[CT Me / Lawguy]

Oh so uneducated on the topics which you speak, yet oh so persistent.

500 stores across Canada, all the same computer system. Yes that's right, all stores must have the same technology updated both at the front (registers) and back (storage, data, processing) on a regular basis to the standards set out by the Canadian Tire Corporation. It's not a bunch of individual owners deciding what computer systems they want in their store. sorry, can't work that way, doesn't work that way. thanks for GUESSING as usual

500 stores across Canada and you know personally that they all give difficult times for returns? You've visited them all? You've read complaints about every single store?
By the way - MOST stores, when a customer has a receipt will not ask for ID. ID is usually verified when a return is processed without a receipt.

You say you pointed out the "facts" that most ID theft is at retail. where exactly is that fact? you stated it, that does not make it factual.

Really, you are like the rest on here, claiming to understand stuff that you don't. Go check it out at the RCMP website, they will tell you black and white most theft of such occurs with debit and credit cards, not because someone looked at the address on your drivers license. Do research man just stop talking. Theft of such is caused by debit card readers and debit card skimmers. it replicates the information, duplicates the bank card and allows someone to purchase items or withdraw cash from your account.

[Guest-0276]

I'm more educated than you'd want the customer to be. I can actually think for myself. Speaking of facts, you're spouting much of it yourself without showing any proof i.e. computer systems. Calling the kettle black much? And yes most if not all stores do ask for ID on top of requiring a receipt. The corporate head office confirmed it as STORE POLICY! So much for your facts about "most stores don't require it." Did you personally go to every one of the 500 stores to verify their return policy before you said that "most don't.." ? You wouldn't be lying would you? Thought so.

Oh what to do, oh what to do with all those names, addresses, phone numbers of all those ID's you have. Oh what could a thief possibly do? Could they apply for credit cards in their name? Yep. Could they piece together enough information and pretend it's them to the credit card company? Yep. Do banks and credit card companies ask for information like postal code, address etc that only the account holder should know? Yep. We all know they do! Customers, do you still feel safe giving your ID away to CT for a refund? Should you be concerned?

[Angry CT Guy]

I'm more educated than you'd want the customer to be. I can actually think for myself. Speaking of facts, you're spouting much of it yourself without showing any proof i.e. computer systems. Calling the kettle black much? And yes most if not all stores do ask for ID on top of requiring a receipt. The corporate head office confirmed it as STORE POLICY! So much for your facts about "most stores don't require it." Did you personally go to every one of the 500 stores to verify their return policy before you said that "most don't.." ? You wouldn't be lying would you? Thought so.

Oh what to do, oh what to do with all those names, addresses, phone numbers of all those ID's you have. Oh what could a thief possibly do? Could they apply for credit cards in their name? Yep. Could they piece together enough information and pretend it's them to the credit card company? Yep. Do banks and credit card companies ask for information like postal code, address etc that only the account holder should know? Yep. We all know they do! Customers, do you still feel safe giving your ID away to CT for a refund? Should you be concerned?

Did you get dropped as a baby? Weren't loved enough? Picked last for sports teams?

Your name, address, phone number are in the phone book. Try Canada 411 or your bank (aeroplan was just hacked too).

You aren't smart, just opinionated and ignorant. That's a dangerous combination.

Waiting for big retailers from the states?.....which ones don't have a privacy statement about YOUR information or a return policy that doesn't mention ID?

Waiting.