Stupid return policy to hide employee theft?



I thought maybe you could read between the lines or actually had some knowledge. I should have known better. ID is not recorded in a store, it is illegal to record it, but not to have someone show it to prove they are who they say they are. Their names, address, phone number are kept on file, not shared with other stores or the home office. Payment systems that use debit or credit cards do not show the customer's card number....it is x'd out so that no one internally at a store has the info after the purchase. The information is as secure as any of the one's listed above-how secure-not sure, but every one of them take the same precautions as the next and all have privacy statements online.
Just for the record, customers aren't on the hook for fraudulent charges on their credit cards or debit cards-the banks are.....get your facts straight before posting.
You need to do a little better before you share your often completely wrong thoughts....it's called ignorance.
 
You are so ignorant don't you realize what you're saying? Maybe you're a little slow.

Unregistered said:
ID is not recorded in a store, it is illegal to record it...
Click to expand...

but then you go on to say

Unregistered said:
Their names, address, phone number are kept on file, not shared with other stores or the home office.
Click to expand...

Caught your own lie did you? Let me correct you on that as the head office has already stated they have no power over the dealers, as each store is independently owned. They do what they want with the information. Who knows what your clerks are doing behind the desk? Has Canadian Tire ever fired someone for theft or bad performance? Guess what ?Those same people are collecting our information. So how can you tell us it's safe? You can't.

Unregistered said:
Just for the record, customers aren't on the hook for fraudulent charges on their credit cards or debit cards-the banks are.....get your facts straight before posting.
Click to expand...

No. You get your facts straight!!! You have no clue what you're talking about. The hours and days wasted combing through each and every transaction and talking to a multitude of government agencies, banks and credit bureaus to straighten out the mess. You're clueless on many fronts especially where ID theft is concerned. And as anyone who's been through this once, they all know how unrelenting banks can be where it concerns debit card fraud. The process of getting those charges removed and your proper credit corrected is far from perfect, and charges can and do stay on.

So stick to selling bad bikes, simoniz pressure washers and attacking customers like you do at the store. Your store has got quite the bad reputation and growing everyday. You're part of the problem.
 
Speaking of someone with no clue, look at this speculative junk you guys are spewing without knowing anything.

Stores keep on file name, phone number and address. That is NOT considered identification. Your ID is asked for in order to verify that information. They do not record SIN, Drivers License numbers or credit card/debit card information.

Card theft happens when someone adds a card reader to an existing debit machine. the card reader takes all of the information stored in the magnetic stripe, stores it or transmits it remotely to an outside computer which then allows replication of the data onto a second card which then gets used fraudulantly. You may have noticed at every Canadian Tire in the country they have now added a security metal case, metal backing plate over the data cable and an air craft cable attached to the back of each pin pad. This was a requirement in 2010 to prevent the pin pad from being changed. So your theory is well........out!

Sorting out credit debit fraud is not hard. If you do what's called a transaction dispute, it is now up to the retailer to provide the information to the bank to prove the card was there. this includes either the transaction and transit ID information that is encoded in a receipt which the bank uses to prove that the card was swiped, or a physical credit card manual form (the old hard copy imprint) to show the card was physically in the store for that transaction and not manually typed in. In the absence of that documentation, the transaction is rejected and the retailer is on the hook. If the retailer proves the card was physically present for said transaction, the bank is on the hook.



All of the credit card information is blocked out on the receipts, at the registers and in the computer system that maintains the record of transactions. Nobody at a store is able to obtain that data.

Funny how in the last few days this has turned into a bunch of LIES and BS that theives will be murdered & credit information is stolen. You might do a bit of homework and discover that in 2010 some of the places that had mass theft of customer data was actually BANKS! Yes that's right your beloved TD Canada Trust had a security breach.
 
Trust your CT retailer with your ID. We know what's best for you. It's not id unless we say it's id. Ignore the obvious ways your credit information can be used without your knowing and you'll have no problem. Trust your CT retailer. Ignore those statistics which points to internal theft as the biggest cause of retail losses, and that other dumb statistic which makes retail a very easy target for id thieves never mind the banks. We help protect people from id theft by getting more private information from everyone. But trust us, thieves won't use that personal information to steal in your name. Trust your CT retailer.
 



You really are a dumb fuck stating bullshit after bullshit. You do not seem to know much. Do your homework before posting, otherwise you are just a raving lunatic to boot.
 

ID has nothing to do with employees stealing from a store, however nice try at mixing topics to suit your argument. NEXT

So let's look at some information, right along your lines. To date, in Canada only one major retailer has had an incident of major security breach - Winners/HomeSense. In fact it was their parent company in the United States TJX who's systems were breached and information about several million customers was released. OOPS. No major breaches at Canadian Tire, Home Depot, Walmart, Rona and so on.

Your "apparent" statistics are only partially true. Retailers are very targetted for debit card fraud, there you are correct. what you are incorrect in, is assuming Canadian Tire is the main target or even the thief. The correct tidbit you've skipped over is that small retail outfits and unmanned debit/bank machines are responsible for the majority of debit card frauds through duplication. So when you see that off brand ATM at a bar, airport or restaurant, that's the place to be leary. Unmanned machines have a exponentially higher rate of fake card readers installed then anywhere else. The second is the small retailer. Look closely at their machines. They likely have not been secured. By secured it is meant that they simply can not be removed. The way the debit card info is stolen is to have a card reader installed onto an existing machine, or have the whole pin pad changed. All large retailers have in the last 12 months secured their debit pads in one of a few fashions. 1) the pads are attached to a metal case, which is attached to the desk, or to a pedestal. 2) a metal security tab affixed to the back covering the data cable, making it impossible to unplug the pinpad and install a replacement with card reader. 3) a combination of the above (metal casing with short security cable tethering the machine to the register or desk.

In any event the goal is to deter a thief from removing the existing pin pad and adding their own, which incidentally still operate like a normal debit machine, and copy the information from the magnetic stripe to a remote device.
In a small mini mart type store as an example, the common practice is to ask the lone attendant for help with an item, they get distracted for 30 seconds, and the pin pad is swapped out while the clerk is unknowing.

So you think you know so much about debit fraud....and that Canadian Tire's are stealing your information. Think again sir, do some homework.
 
Somebody must've stumbled on some truth for those CT dealers, managers to be down right rude and abusive to a stranger online. Not that much different than being in the store having the manager / owner tell a customer to "fuck off!!! and don't come back for asking for an exchange". That's on top of ripping off the customer. Same attitude. Can't wait for the other american stores to come up so I can vote with my money.

So a CT dealer makes a claim that information off our ID is safe with them. Oh and our name, address, phone number isn't private or ID...that's right, they're asking us not to question the obvious and give anything they ask like sheep. I asked a simple question is anything safe with so much theft going on internally? The owner/ dealer decides what's done with YOUR information, and it's different from store to store. Yet not one mention of that, but instead I get called a liar and it's BS, and f you that and this. Oh didn't a show capture a CT mechanic trying to rip off a customer on hidden camera? Consumers decide for yourselves.

Second you compared CT, your security of peoples ID to that of a bank. I pointed out the facts again that most ID is stolen in the retail industry. Your reply was rather long winded and proved nothing. Our ID is still at risk in your hands. Are you banking on the fact that you haven't made the news YET for a security breach before the obvious hits you!??? Not to mention the time and headaches on the part of the customer for cleaning up after you!?!?!?

Lets see... 500 stores across canada, all different owners, all do things differently, some have different computer systems, corporate has no control...Yet all hassle the customer for ID for simple returns. And here you are telling us it's safe. Consumers you decide for yourselves again.
 
Oh so uneducated on the topics which you speak, yet oh so persistent.

500 stores across Canada, all the same computer system. Yes that's right, all stores must have the same technology updated both at the front (registers) and back (storage, data, processing) on a regular basis to the standards set out by the Canadian Tire Corporation. It's not a bunch of individual owners deciding what computer systems they want in their store. sorry, can't work that way, doesn't work that way. thanks for GUESSING as usual

500 stores across Canada and you know personally that they all give difficult times for returns? You've visited them all? You've read complaints about every single store?
By the way - MOST stores, when a customer has a receipt will not ask for ID. ID is usually verified when a return is processed without a receipt.

You say you pointed out the "facts" that most ID theft is at retail. where exactly is that fact? you stated it, that does not make it factual.

Really, you are like the rest on here, claiming to understand stuff that you don't. Go check it out at the RCMP website, they will tell you black and white most theft of such occurs with debit and credit cards, not because someone looked at the address on your drivers license. Do research man just stop talking. Theft of such is caused by debit card readers and debit card skimmers. it replicates the information, duplicates the bank card and allows someone to purchase items or withdraw cash from your account.
 
I'm more educated than you'd want the customer to be. I can actually think for myself. Speaking of facts, you're spouting much of it yourself without showing any proof i.e. computer systems. Calling the kettle black much? And yes most if not all stores do ask for ID on top of requiring a receipt. The corporate head office confirmed it as STORE POLICY! So much for your facts about "most stores don't require it." Did you personally go to every one of the 500 stores to verify their return policy before you said that "most don't.." ? You wouldn't be lying would you? Thought so.

Oh what to do, oh what to do with all those names, addresses, phone numbers of all those ID's you have. Oh what could a thief possibly do? Could they apply for credit cards in their name? Yep. Could they piece together enough information and pretend it's them to the credit card company? Yep. Do banks and credit card companies ask for information like postal code, address etc that only the account holder should know? Yep. We all know they do! Customers, do you still feel safe giving your ID away to CT for a refund? Should you be concerned?
 



Did you get dropped as a baby? Weren't loved enough? Picked last for sports teams?

Your name, address, phone number are in the phone book. Try Canada 411 or your bank (aeroplan was just hacked too).

You aren't smart, just opinionated and ignorant. That's a dangerous combination.

Waiting for big retailers from the states?.....which ones don't have a privacy statement about YOUR information or a return policy that doesn't mention ID?

Waiting.
 

I did the data cabling, security cabling, and computer installation for several stores built new in the last 3 years in Western Canada, and upgrades to several more to support a new computer system roll out. I'm 100% certain of the computer systems, and that they all are operating on the same system. They have the same switches, same cabling standards and same software and hardware. Why? Because toronto office is where the IT tech support comes from, and they all have to be trained to work on the same system so they can do tech support remotely without having to figure out what system they are working with. Secondly, reports must be uniform, receiving of inventory, sales of inventory, it all has to run same store to store.

No I didn't go to 500 stores to personally verify returns policies. Did you????
What I do know is that i've lived in 3 Provinces, travelled through and worked in the rest and have likely shopped 60 or 70 different stores. I can think of half a dozen times that i've been asked for ID. Last year I was asked for ID at a store in Red Deer Alberta because I had no receipt to exchange defective. Technically she shouldn't have done the exchange because she didn't know when i bought the item and the 1 year warranty may have expired but i talked her into it. The rest were typically credit card transactions, ID asked for to verify i was the card holder.

I'm sure you'll come back with, you're a liar, because that's all you've got to offer. Good luck with that

Yes banks ask for verification of certain things before going into account information, including a PIN number on the account, date of birth and often a secure password. As already pointed out, your name, address and phone number is readily available online, in the phone book and on the front of your newspaper if you have a subscription. Oh boy, don't trust that shady paperboy who only makes $30/day. They can read your name and know where you live....surely they must be stealing your identity. If you really think Canadian Tire is the high security risk and are going to steal your identity, keep up the good research and investigative work. Don't forget to wave to the camera that's stealing your PIN number and card information when you're using the variety store ATM machine or the gas station pin pad at the pump.

Just because you're an educated consumer doesn't mean you're educated with the right information. You can learn the wrong shit all day long, and you're still learning. learning to make mistakes
 
Unregistered said:
Did you get dropped as a baby? Weren't loved enough? Picked last for sports teams?
Click to expand...

Typical response from canadian tire. Rather than deal with a response to a legitimate concern they start with insulting the customer and blaming everyone else for the problem. Anyone else tried to return something like a simoniz pressure washer and get pushed out of the store? Oh as for the insults, that's ok. I'm sure smart enough not to work in retail or make a living misleading the public.

Unregistered said:
Your name, address, phone number are in the phone book. Try Canada 411 or your bank...
Click to expand...

What you don't say, and what we already know is that most of North America have cell phones and have switched from landlines. That information isn't in the phone books. Again you're telling us to look the other way when it suits you, like when the obvious is in our face. So convenient for the CT retailer! Consumers decide for yourselves.

Unregistered said:
You aren't smart, just opinionated and ignorant. That's a dangerous combination.
Click to expand...
You don't like the fact that smart consumers can decide for themselves and shop every where else but Canadian Tire. Dangerous to you, good for the rest of us.

So our information is safe with a Canadian Tire store you claim? 500 dealers all doing their own thing, all with different policies all across canada. And yet you intimately know that "most don't ask for ID for returns". Sure buddy. Sure. Didn't somebody say a dealer got criminally fined and sentenced sometime ago? Consumers decide for yourselves if your information is safe.
 
Unregistered said:
I did the data cabling...
Click to expand...
Are you claiming because you did some work for some stores in Western Canada makes you an expert on what goes on behind the returns desk everyday? That's quite the stretch you're asking a customer to believe. What's that young offender doing behind the counter with YOUR information?

Unregistered said:
No I didn't go to 500 stores to personally verify returns policies. Did you????
Click to expand...

The truth comes out. Going by this can we assume that you don't speak for every one of those 500 stores either!? I did something smarter than waste my time visiting every store. I called the head office which I stated before.

Unregistered said:
What I do know is that i've lived in 3 Provinces, travelled through and worked in the rest and have likely shopped 60 or 70 different stores...
Click to expand...

Jeez, big picture getting out of focus again for the typical ct retailer owner. How does your travels protect customers info? What's that? It does NOTHING!

Unregistered said:
As already pointed out, your name, address and phone number is readily available online, in the phone book ...
Click to expand...

For a self admitted I.T. guy haven't you clued in that society has changed and that cell numbers aren't in the phone book? Or maybe you have and conveniently omitted that little snippet of fact! Last time anyone's checked the phone book has gotten smaller while some city populations have increased dramatically i.e. GTA. Oh where oh where are those numbers you speak of?

There's a reason why banks, police, credit card companies, pre schools etc. have urged society to keep their personal information private. It's safer in your hand than in somebody else's. Just because somebody in a store demands your ID for a stupid reason doesn't mean you should give it to them. Consumers, decide for yourselves.
 
Pay close attention

You asked how I know about the computer systems and disputed that they were all the same. I'm telling you through my work with them, installing new and upgrading existing, that the systems all run the same software and hardware. The pin pads all have to be secured in the same fashion, it is mandated and tracked by the toronto office. I'm not a returns desk pro, i'm a computer and technology pro that can tell you precisely how the information is processed and secured. I know you choose not to believe anything that doesn't come out of your own mind and mouth but that's not my problem, that's your own choice to operate blindly.

Phone numbers, cellular or landlines do not open up a major loophole for identity and credit theft, so what you're rambling about I have no idea. Again, listen to the most important tidbit of fact - credit theft happens most often as a result of fraudulant pin pads, card readers and duplicators. PERIOD. your phone number has jack shitt to do with those readers.
identify theft is most often started with good old fashion snail mail documents. paper with your information from banks, credit companies and payroll information that people fail to shred. Instead they toss in the recycle bin or trash. So your address, in the hands of a retail clerk, is still presenting a fairly low risk. If of course you choose to focus your energy and time on protecting yourself from the odd chance, and ignoring the high risk factors, all the more to you. Russian Roulette appears to be your style

Now don't be stupid and ask rhetorical questions. Of course your information is always more secure in your own hands then someone else's. That's a little thing I like to call, common sense. Yes it's best to keep personal information private which is why you never write down a password, pin code or other security pass of any sort. That's nothing new. When a retailer, and by the way Walmart, Home Depot and Rona all have printed clearly they may ask for ID (IT's their policy too smart guy), all they do is look at say your drivers license, and see that you are who they say you are. It's never swiped into a machine, photo copied or anything like that. It's fairly secure to hand a girl your license while you're standing 3 feet away at the other side of the counter, let them look at it to verify you are that person, and hand it back. If they suddenly disappear into a back room with it.... fuckin right be concerned. To suggest that canadian tire is the source of id/credit theft, well there's absolutely zero evidence to support such claim.

Are you paranoid? look over your shoulder all day? hey why's that guy looking at me funny...something must be up!? omg
 
Oh and for the record, talking out of both sides of your mouth has just caught up with you.

On one hand you're whining saying toronto office has no control over their stores and the dealers and the policies. then you claim you're so smart as to call toronto office and ask them what the store policy would be.

how can you have it both ways? Oh right you're anti ct, so you use whatever side of a story fits you best at that particular moment. typical of a whiner
 
 
No not ct. Ct and ct dealers can't possibly be the cause or be involved in anything bad! It's because we have computers that's why and because we're telling you to look the other way.

Internal theft? Nope not us.
ID fraud? Look there, a bird. Clunk. "knocked out smart guy real good. Maybe killed customer number 2"

But you go further than just look at my ID. You collect information from our drivers license. The girl entered my information into the computer!
"That never happened. She just saw it. It's in case you turn out to be fraudster."
You sold a defective bike that caused permanent brain injury to a kid. " That was so long ago, that it never happened"
"it's not safer in your hands. It's safer in our hands"
"You like russian roulette because you don't like ...risk!"
Yeah CT has turned out to be a slimy store with the typical bully response. Consumers decide for yourselves.
 
lol what a fucking douche bag. CT cockaroach too stupid to know they've stepped over their own foot.

Cable guy now says that they only look at your id. But in previous posts say's they only record ...
 
Just the other day I was browsing and saw an elderly person, must've been in her 90's get verbally assaulted by some disrespectful ct clerk . It's the same everywhere. Oh where did my information come from you're asking as you're insulting me calling me names again. Typical store attitude. That's why people shouldn't shop at CT. " Where's the tools?" asks elderly indian man " FUCK YOU" say's the clerk. That tidbit came from the head office. You don't like that truth either eh? You don't like it when the customer can look into things and reasonably conclude that you're a bad store with bad people, all on their own.[/QUOTE]

hahaha
1) what does an employees comment to a customer have to do with ID fraud? or did you back down on ID/credit fraud so quickly in the face of information you can not dispute?

2) I would be willing to say you've exaggerated. An unsolicited, outloud "FUCK YOU" from an employee who was asked for help? Nobody is perfect, no store is perfect but come on, tell some truth!


You can conclude whatever you want about canadian tire, it doesn't affect me personally or my job. I work for a small IT company that does work for them and guess what, even with only 9 people on staff we still have theft that happens internally, we still upset some customers, make mistakes and so on. So Im guessing a store with 10 times more workers and way more customers are likely to piss off a few people too. So all of your rantings and ravings about how bad canadian tire is, you don't have a grasp on what is reasonable in a workplace.
 

I don't recall anyone claiming canadian tire was perfect and never made mistakes. From what i've read hear, there's full acknowledgement that there is internal theft, every business has it. I don't know anything about a bad bicycle and that killed a customer thing is clearly your version of the events given that canadian tire was not charged with murder, or assault or anything. defend a thief, that shows your true idea of what is right and what is wrong.

Again back to the computer ID thing, there's no entry field in the computer for a drivers license number when I last set up a stores computer system.
 
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