Owner 1

New member
i mean like look at what the guy said...and he doesnt strike me as an unreasonable person or a thief....he feels like he gets put through the mill just to return an item that doesnt fulfil his expectations whether it be defective/didnt like colour whatever.i would have poo pooed this a couple of years ago,but unfortunately he is correct in every aspect.unless you change your policies to be more user friendly you WILL go down eventually.but what the hell would i know?all i know is that your comments have made it even more unlikely that i will ever part with my money in one of your stores again-i hate your attitude mr fukkin owner


I have no idea what you know. I do however know myself that there are absolutely zero, count that high....zero..... signs that Canadian Tire is, was or will be in any type of trouble.
 

Owner 1

New member
obviously mr owner will read this and say 'we dont care,the bums are still on the seats,and we dont give a flying fuck about you customers...'
more or less....

At no point, EVER through my career have I stated, thought or acted as if I don't care about my customers. Anyone who works on my team would get fired if they ever stopped caring about customers. This is a customer driven business. This is how we built it, this is how we run it. 480 of us hundreds of thousands of times, 363 days a year. I would say the same for all retailers, they generally operate as if they care about their customers. Unfortunately for several major retailers, they are unsuccessful at doing the right things for customers and their business and as such are failing. BestBuy as you've highlighted, although I never pay attention to them as there is very little product overlap. Sears is in trouble. Rona is in trouble. Lowe's expansion in to Canada has been a fraction of what they anticipated. Zellers.....oops. Targets Canadian presence has been underwhelming
 

CTH8R

New member
I have no idea what you know. I do however know myself that there are absolutely zero, count that high....zero..... signs that Canadian Tire is, was or will be in any type of trouble.

I guess The Moaner hasn't read that Blog yet.

(P.S.: when they wrote "zero", did they mean "zero"? Or did they mean something that's non-zero? Just curious!)

LMAO!
 
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CTH8R

New member
At no point, EVER through my career have I stated, thought or acted as if I don't care about my customers. <etc., etc., and so on>


And we are supposed to take Mr. Moaner's word for all for this?

After we've seen all these recent posts on the poor customer service they inflict on their innocent customers?

Including enforcing the dreaded Repair Only policy on these poor people??

Not likely!

And we've even heard from them directly, that they care NOT A HOOT how many customers proclaim their boycott on CT's Facebook page - as long as The Moaner is still raking in "big coin", they will NOT change their current policies and practices.

You'd think The Moaner and their fellows would take a look at the similar failed Canadian retailers (see list, above), and then wisely decide to do an about-face, clean up their act, and start listening to what their customers are saying, for a change.

I bet a good starting point, might be that recent Blog we all read.

So sad ...
 
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Owner 1

New member
....and despite all of your anecdotal evidence and your opinions you still can't answer the one single most important question of all no matter how many times it's asked.

Knowing full well that consumers speak with their wallets, why are we growing? why do more stores keep being built and old ones expanded? Why do sales keep increasing?

We aren't perfect, but clearly something is happening each quarter and each year that causes this LONG TERM trend. What's your explanation for this ? Surely somewhere in your tickle trunk of business analysis skills and math savy you can explain how that happens
 

1wildhorse

New member
agreed....if we look at mr owners comments over the last few months,by his very magnanimous attitude,you could easily infer that he doesnt regard customers with integrity.i could spend time trawling through his posts to highlight this but in all honesty i cant be assed.i know what ive read....
 

CT Challenger

New member
We aren't perfect,

Yeah, no kidding, LOL! That's one thing you've NEVER been accused of!

but clearly something is happening each quarter and each year that causes this LONG TERM trend. What's your explanation for this ?

(Sigh) do we REALLY have to keep going over this?

Ok, but this should be the last time!

There are lots of possibilities:

- demographics (the population age shifts favour the buying habits of different businesses and industries)
- population change (increases will cause increased economic activity in a country)
- immigration changes
- overall economic activity


Plus cultural effects:
- a misguided patriotism where people will continue to buy from a bad Canadian company, instead of switching to a better company that is foreign owned.
- misguided patriotism, where people incorrectly assume that a store with Canadian in the name stocks more Canadian products than others.
- spending huge amounts of money to convince people that CT sucks less than you really do.

And let's not forget the short-term effects that exploitive policies will have, before people catch on:

- Selling cheap foreign-made, low-quality products to unsuspecting consumers, who haven't yet realized how crappy they are, and stopped buying them.
- Selling product without telling customers that the products have been procured at a lower price because there is a no-returns arrangement with the manufacturer.
- Selling poor-quality products to unsuspecting customers, then refusing to give refunds the way other stores do.
- Hiring teenagers to fix automobiles, then refusing to correct the damage they've caused.

And let's not forget encouraging Canadians to give you money for Jump Start, then getting a charitable tax receipt for other people's money.

I'm sure there are lots of other tricks you've pulled to cheat ordinary Canadians, and artificially inflate your bottom line.

The sad truth is that Canadian have not yet realized that this terrible store does not deserve their loyalty.

But a few minutes on the CT Facebook page can be very educational!
 
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Owner 1

New member
That wasn't an answer, that was just a bunch of random factors that impact every business.
IF all of these factors are what's driving our business to grow, why are Rona and Sears and mom and pop shops shrinking? They compete for the same customers?
PS - love the reincarnation of accusing Dealers of making fake tax claims for charitable donations. I don't recall what prompted that original accusation but i'm 101% sure it's not based on any proof or fact. It's actually quite a bold statement to make....to the point it could even be a MISREPRESENTATION. Maybe that's actionable in court hahahaha See how ridiculous you sound when you say stuff like that?


In any event, some research this morning me landed me with some interesting information. Checking out some competition and their return policies
Lets have a peek at some general return policies as well as some exceptions for gas powered equipment from some of YOUR favourite retailers.

Customer Support
TSC stores 60 days with a receipt in original packaging. Note that's 33% fewer days to return items then Canadian Tire's 90 day policy

Home Hardware
Home Hardware - Terms & Conditions
30 days? wow that's 66% fewer days

Rona
Returns and Refunds
30 days? Still not quite up to par

Walmart
Walmart.ca Help Centre: General Return Policy
90 days
Same as Canadian Tire

Lowes
Return Policy - Lowe's Canada
90 days - 30 days for gas powered equipment in original condition after which manufacturers repair warranty applies

John Deere
http://www.deere.ca/en_CA/docs/warranty_pdf/LP25936_OM_90days.pdf
If you return the entire unit, the service center will repair the unit.
John Deere 726E Compact John Deere Snowthrowers Snow Equipment JohnDeere.com
and to add a little bonus to it and I quote The John Deere Promise is not available on this product


and you thought you woke up to a different world this morning. This is a tsunami of information for you to ponder and perhaps reconsider your position on repairs under warranty. Illegal? Common practice? legal? only Canadian Tire and HOme Depot?
 

1wildhorse

New member
yes but you DONT offer a 90 day return policy on repair only warranty stuff....get it right.you have a 0 day return policy on that stuff....
 

1wildhorse

New member
and it may be that the change in policy TO the repair only policy has had a positive growth impact over the last couple of years,as youre now refusing to refund those items/exchange.which of course leads to a short term rise in the figures.of course long term you guys are shooting yourselves in your respective feet,only youre too blind to see it
 

Owner 1

New member
yes but you DONT offer a 90 day return policy on repair only warranty stuff....get it right.you have a 0 day return policy on that stuff....

I have it right. I don't offer a 90 day return policy on gas powered equipment, nor did I ever claim to. Neither do any of them.
On some gas powered there is a DOA policy, if it's new and doesn't work we will refund or get the customer a new one from 7-30 days depending on the item.

I am quite interested in how this will play out on here going forward. The number one battle that horse1, H8R and Challenger have been arguing for several years now has been taken down. Concrete, nothing left on the table, absolutely beyond any reasonable doubt!
 

Owner 1

New member
and it may be that the change in policy TO the repair only policy has had a positive growth impact over the last couple of years,as youre now refusing to refund those items/exchange.which of course leads to a short term rise in the figures.of course long term you guys are shooting yourselves in your respective feet,only youre too blind to see it

the repair policy is not new. It is not a last couple of years deal so it's not like you would see a spike in figures as a result as it's always been there.
Besides, that business is only a small fraction of everything we sell. The impact of a few snow blowers and lawn tractors sold or returned wouldn't be big enough to show up on financials. Nice try though
 

CTH8R

New member
...Lets have a peek at some general policies as well as some exceptions for gas powered equipment from some of YOUR favourite retailers.

Well, this IS disappointing ...

After seeing an anomolous tidbit of genuine info from CTMe/lawguy, I had hoped they had maybe some new, honest information to share about other retailers, too.

But ... Nope!

Just a lot of false claims about their competition, pretending the others suck as much as they do.

And, more disturbing, additional attempts to conceal their own, terrible policies!

Well, all this ground has been thoroughly covered before. When I get a couple minutes, I'll dig it up & repost yet again, in case any of my fellow Canadians have fallen for this latest misrepresentation, designed to trick them into shopping at the Red Trianlgle of Crap Stores.
 

CTH8R

New member
I have it right.
Precious little written by CTMe/lawguy/moaner is true.

And it's usually on an inappropriate thread, too.

Well I'll be setting the record straight, in the relevant venue, shortly.

I've read this here before: the CTer ca post lies here a lot faster than the consumers can post the truth!
 

CTH8R

New member
... [the sale of Repair Only products] is only a small fraction of everything we sell. The impact of a few snow blowers and lawn tractors sold or returned wouldn't be big enough to show up on financials. Nice try though

Another serious misrepresentation. Most (maybe all) gas-powered items are Repair Only, as are many (maybe most) electrically powered items. Plus many more are Non-Returnable, such as major appliances and assembled bicycles.

One other major factor that would affect CT's profits, is their policy on the return of items customers are unsatisfied with, for reason of size, colour, changed plans, or general dissatisfaction. All the other retailers let customers bring almost anything back under these circumstances, and CTMe/Lawguy/Moaner has agreed many times on this site that it would be expensive for CT to have a good policy for this, too.

But many consumers don't realize that CT has a policy to refuse refunds or even exchanges on anything they sell if the package has been opened, and they item can be proven to be defective. This is another Win Win for CT financially because Canadians still buy thing from them, thinking they can open it, maybe even try it out, then return it for a refund, or even just an exchange . But it isn't until the customer tries to return it that they find out about CT's money saving policy.

They like to say how great a 90 day policy is, but then misrepresent it as applying to defective or opened items.
 

CT Challenger

New member
CTMe/Lawguy/Moaner makes it sound like CT has been using the same old, tried-and-true return policies for decades, so they can expect to have continued success in the future.

But, as happens so often, this is a misrepresentation - in this case, of their own policy history.

Things like the Repair Only and Exchange Only policies are relatively new, and are being gradually rolled out to more and more Crappy Tire products, in more and more categories. W can read daily the stories of Canadians who have not yet become aware of these policies (even if they’ve been around for a few years).

The reasons for this naivity on the part of Canadians has been widely discussed, but mainly it is because: 1) Canadians don’t encounter these policies at other stores and 2) Crappy Tire actively hides them.

We are now in a new era where CT has the worst-in-sector policies. For defective products, these include the wide-spread use of Repair Only policies on a wide variety of products at CT (HD is the only other retailer we've seen that have it, and only on 2 types of products). For other defective products, they apply an Exchange Only policy, which is something we've not see at other retailers. Then there are the many products that are non-returnable at all, even if they are defective - something other retailers don't do. Plus, there is the 'you opened it, you own it' policy for unwanted goods - something the other major retailers don't have.

These facts are continuously debated, Rob-Ford-style, but they remain true.

You can read the proof for these worst-in-sector cash-grabs in the relevant threads on this site.

Repair Only policy for defective goods (the only other retailer confirmed to have it is HD, on 2 types of products): https://www.canadiantiresucks.net/g...pair-only-warranty-no-refund-no-exchange.html

Exchange only for defective goods (only CT has it)

No refunds on unwanted, non-defective goods (all other retailers have a Satisfaction Guarantee): https://www.canadiantiresucks.net/g...ing-unwanted-goods-ct-has-worst-policies.html

All of these policies will allow Crappy Tire to rack in extra profits, until their customers get wise & stop shopping there.

But as the true policies of CT will become more widely known, the trend of increasing boycotts will continue, until the policies become well-know, customers stay away in droves, and the store has to hope they can get back in the game before it is too late.

However, with the increasing competition in the Canadian marketplace, such a recovery might already be too late.
 

CT Challenger

New member
Certainly, the devious policies of CT are going to make them more profitable than their competitors, at least until consumers catch on to CT's tricks.

Will some competitors will start down-grading their policies? I hope not - that would mean they'd suck almost as much as CT!

But the trend is generally in the other direction: more competition, better policies, better customer service.

Let's hope the word gets about before too many consumers get ripped off!
 
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